TVD 4x21 reaction post
May. 3rd, 2013 12:17 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jedi_of_urthSo...things happened.
(TVD 4x21 reaction post)
Unfortunately one of those things was not Elena telling Katherine, “You have to realize Elijah likes me better.” Although I can contort the “I didn’t have to say a thing” element into being about how Kat/Elijah was always a lie and she just used the truth to make Elijah realize that (which is basically what happened after all) thus proving how easy it is for someone who actually gets Elijah to get it even with her emotions off.
Sadly, it seems we may have to resign ourselves to no more Elena/Elijah this season but...I’ve kind of made peace with that. In a way where they left things in 4x18 is kind of right for them right now, and while I want more I can deal with that being where it’s left for now. Maybe we could get another letter at the end of the season to replace the one that got burned, but 4x18 was very much an acknowledgement that there’s a thing between them; ill-defined though it may be it’s very very real; with that hope that one day they can meet again as friends (or more). And that’s maybe about where they should stand for now.
Anyway, also unfortunately Elena does not beat the shit out of the Salvatores for everything they’ve done. And dear gods to they deserve it now. I’m not saying Katherine doesn’t but couldn’t she have enough hate for all of them?
Yeah, about that. I suspect this won’t make me a lot of friends, but while I love Kat and would hate to see her go, she definitely deserves to reap the whirlwind here. And Elena deserves to get pissed off at SOMEONE by-cracky and Katherine’s definitely earned it.
I’m also not convinced Bonnie’s being honest with Kat about how this is going to go down. But whether or not she is, watching these competing elements play off each other could be interesting.
I LOVE YOU MATT, that covers a lot of my feelings on the episode.
But how weird is it to see anyone on this show worrying about concerns like school and grades and cap and gown orders? Of course, I’m not sure how any of them are passing without the Rebekah plan (I long ago assumed they were compelling their way out of absences and late work and just not giving a shit), so hearing her suggest it and Matt be so scandalized by the idea made me laugh.
What the episode denied me in Elena/Elijah references it paid back in spades for my Elena/Matt loving heart. So I’m not unhappy from a shipping stance this episode. Just unhappy Damon and Stefan still exist and even more so that the Triangle hadn’t been torn down (afaic it died and was destroyed a long time ago, but I want the show to finally realize that).
Matt/Rebekah continues to be weird. Unfortunately I’m not even conflicted about them like I am Klaus/Caroline because while those two don’t make any more sense at least they have sparks. The weird part is, I think the show is actually starting to get that this ship doesn’t work as a ship (probably helped by Rebekah going off to a different show next year), but there’s still an outside chance they could be friends and if that’s the end goal I’ll be okay. If they want me to ship it then I’m going to have to pass on this (apparently she doesn’t stalk him enough to appeal to my taste in Originals/stalking high schoolers).
Speaking of Klaus/Caroline, I have no idea what this episode was trying to say about them. I really doubt they’d have the nail in its coffin be delivered in a scene with SiKlaus rather than regular Klaus, but Caroline was allowed to outright reject him even before she knew it wasn’t really him and in a way that felt like the show was...if not ending it after all this build up at least tabling it. So...it was weird.
I expect the show to actually give us some stuff between Elena and her other friends next week (actually I don’t, because that’s what a good show would do, this one may well not), or at least some kind of deliberate avoidance because she’s more comfortable around the Salvatores now because they’re awful people and she feels like an awful person too. Either way it had really better acknowledge that there are other people that care about Elena having her humanity back.
Show, I had ONE demand going into this episode that I thought you could live up to. I didn’t want to see where I knew you were going but the ONE thing I thought you could do was NOT LET CAROLINE BE ON BOARD WITH IT. And I thought you might have actually seen one small thing my way at the start, but then she pretty much lets it happen anyway. So maybe half a point out of ten for at least on some level knowing she should be against this sort of plan, but no more than that because you couldn’t stick to it.
I actually didn’t hate this one quite as much as I thought I would, but it was mostly redeemed by Matt and a little by Bonnie and Katherine. I’ll tentatively say Elena might be back to being a character now, which would give it some retroactive points if that does happen, but I’m not holding my breath.
(TVD 4x21 reaction post)
Unfortunately one of those things was not Elena telling Katherine, “You have to realize Elijah likes me better.” Although I can contort the “I didn’t have to say a thing” element into being about how Kat/Elijah was always a lie and she just used the truth to make Elijah realize that (which is basically what happened after all) thus proving how easy it is for someone who actually gets Elijah to get it even with her emotions off.
Sadly, it seems we may have to resign ourselves to no more Elena/Elijah this season but...I’ve kind of made peace with that. In a way where they left things in 4x18 is kind of right for them right now, and while I want more I can deal with that being where it’s left for now. Maybe we could get another letter at the end of the season to replace the one that got burned, but 4x18 was very much an acknowledgement that there’s a thing between them; ill-defined though it may be it’s very very real; with that hope that one day they can meet again as friends (or more). And that’s maybe about where they should stand for now.
Anyway, also unfortunately Elena does not beat the shit out of the Salvatores for everything they’ve done. And dear gods to they deserve it now. I’m not saying Katherine doesn’t but couldn’t she have enough hate for all of them?
Yeah, about that. I suspect this won’t make me a lot of friends, but while I love Kat and would hate to see her go, she definitely deserves to reap the whirlwind here. And Elena deserves to get pissed off at SOMEONE by-cracky and Katherine’s definitely earned it.
I’m also not convinced Bonnie’s being honest with Kat about how this is going to go down. But whether or not she is, watching these competing elements play off each other could be interesting.
I LOVE YOU MATT, that covers a lot of my feelings on the episode.
But how weird is it to see anyone on this show worrying about concerns like school and grades and cap and gown orders? Of course, I’m not sure how any of them are passing without the Rebekah plan (I long ago assumed they were compelling their way out of absences and late work and just not giving a shit), so hearing her suggest it and Matt be so scandalized by the idea made me laugh.
What the episode denied me in Elena/Elijah references it paid back in spades for my Elena/Matt loving heart. So I’m not unhappy from a shipping stance this episode. Just unhappy Damon and Stefan still exist and even more so that the Triangle hadn’t been torn down (afaic it died and was destroyed a long time ago, but I want the show to finally realize that).
Matt/Rebekah continues to be weird. Unfortunately I’m not even conflicted about them like I am Klaus/Caroline because while those two don’t make any more sense at least they have sparks. The weird part is, I think the show is actually starting to get that this ship doesn’t work as a ship (probably helped by Rebekah going off to a different show next year), but there’s still an outside chance they could be friends and if that’s the end goal I’ll be okay. If they want me to ship it then I’m going to have to pass on this (apparently she doesn’t stalk him enough to appeal to my taste in Originals/stalking high schoolers).
Speaking of Klaus/Caroline, I have no idea what this episode was trying to say about them. I really doubt they’d have the nail in its coffin be delivered in a scene with SiKlaus rather than regular Klaus, but Caroline was allowed to outright reject him even before she knew it wasn’t really him and in a way that felt like the show was...if not ending it after all this build up at least tabling it. So...it was weird.
I expect the show to actually give us some stuff between Elena and her other friends next week (actually I don’t, because that’s what a good show would do, this one may well not), or at least some kind of deliberate avoidance because she’s more comfortable around the Salvatores now because they’re awful people and she feels like an awful person too. Either way it had really better acknowledge that there are other people that care about Elena having her humanity back.
Show, I had ONE demand going into this episode that I thought you could live up to. I didn’t want to see where I knew you were going but the ONE thing I thought you could do was NOT LET CAROLINE BE ON BOARD WITH IT. And I thought you might have actually seen one small thing my way at the start, but then she pretty much lets it happen anyway. So maybe half a point out of ten for at least on some level knowing she should be against this sort of plan, but no more than that because you couldn’t stick to it.
I actually didn’t hate this one quite as much as I thought I would, but it was mostly redeemed by Matt and a little by Bonnie and Katherine. I’ll tentatively say Elena might be back to being a character now, which would give it some retroactive points if that does happen, but I’m not holding my breath.
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no subject
Date: 2013-05-03 03:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-05-04 02:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-05-03 08:08 pm (UTC)Yeah, I agree. I would love them to interact again, of course, but I'm happy with the way they left things between them.
(I long ago assumed they were compelling their way out of absences and late work and just not giving a shit)
This is pretty much my assumption too.
I’ll tentatively say Elena might be back to being a character now, which would give it some retroactive points if that does happen, but I’m not holding my breath.
It could happen. Let's see.
no subject
Date: 2013-05-04 03:09 am (UTC)season of suck
Date: 2013-05-09 09:24 am (UTC)Watching them burn her was disgusting...as expected. I just didn't expect it to get worse (torture wise - for Elena *and* me). You know what you *don't* do to someone you love?...hand them over to their worst enemy to be tortured. Not to mention how stupid it was for them to trust that Katherine wouldn't kill this newly bitchy Elena. I don't think I've ever been quite so disturbed by the Salvatores and/or the triangle of doom. The absolute worst part...Elena won't be allowed to express any anger towards the Salvatores.
I don't understand what message the writers are trying to convey with the switch-off version of Elena. At first, I thought she was just going to be callously blunt. She no longer cared about the feelings of others so extreme honesty seemed believable. However, what I've seen over the course of the last few episodes doesn't strike me as extreme honesty as much as extreme cruelty...with no underlying motivation. All I can figure is that the writers made Elena as bitchy/cruel as possible to ensure that the majority of the TVD fanbase would enjoy the torture scenes. Seriously...considering how much Stelena and Delena fans already hate on her...uggghhh...
Apparently, bitchy women deserve to be tortured on principle...'cause it served no practical purpose. Torture never helped Stefan or Damon act with humanity and it wasn't the impetus for the switch to be flipped back on.
When did Matt become more important to Elena than Bonnie and/or Caroline? Elena actively tried to kill her two best friends yet the thought of Matt's death supposedly saved her. I know you ship Elena/Matt but up until last week's ep, the show/writers have never given me any reason to believe that Elena loves Matt more than Bonnie and/or Caroline. I guess I can pretend that the idea of his death was harder to swallow because she sacrificed her humanity for him...nope...still can't do it. I guess the writers had to pull some reason/salvation out of their asses ...
Re: season of suck
Date: 2013-05-11 05:35 am (UTC)Yeah, that part REALLY confused me. The torture stuff was awful but at least for these two I could fanwank that to them...well it’s Lexi’s way of “saving” people and they were just carrying on the tradition. It’s clearly not a great idea and I’m never convinced it actually works, but while I would never forgive them for it I could see where it came from in character. But sending Katherine in doesn’t make sense from a logic OR character stance. And yeah, the worst part is they knew all the reasons Elena-with-emotions would hate, blame, and fear Kat and that’s just not a good idea to put them together.
The absolute worst part...Elena won't be allowed to express any anger towards the Salvatores.
Nope, that was never going to happen. Sigh.
However, what I've seen over the course of the last few episodes doesn't strike me as extreme honesty as much as extreme cruelty...with no underlying motivation
It’s been really all over the map in terms of that, but yeah that’s about the long and short of it. It didn’t really have a point in the story, and most of her actions didn’t seem to have one in character. Even when they did have a point it was really inconsistent; there seemed to be a lot of bridge burning going on but it wasn’t clear why. If I’m being REALLY generous, that could be the point, that having goals and desires implies emotion...except the bridge burning was too much of a goal to just be random ‘whatever I don’t care.’
When did Matt become more important to Elena than Bonnie and/or Caroline?
Hmm, I need a minute to puzzle through this, because that wasn’t where my mind went so I don’t think that’s what they were trying to say...let me think.
Okay, I think there are a few factors in why Matt’s death pushed her to turn it back on even after all she’d done to the girls.
For one, as much as I’d rather not give them any credit, Elena’s defenses were weak after everything the trolls had been doing to her. Physically obviously and her guards against letting her emotions back in.
For two, Matt was an innocent in all this. Bonnie and Caroline were people *she* attacked for reasons her emotionless mind considered valid. Making some kind of point being her primary motivation but it was all she needed at the time. So it’s not so much an idea that she loves Matt more than the others, but she considers him...outside of all this mess and she doesn’t want him to be drawn into it because of how likely he is to die if he is.
Three: Damon killed Matt because of her, which would ring up a flood of many many emotions that she hadn’t been prepared for. With the others again it was her thoughts/intent so she had time to psych herself up for it, fully reinforced the walls against emotion related to what she was doing and of course we never saw her having done it and what might have happened if she had. With Matt, and her weakened defenses, she had no chance to get herself set up to Not Care in the face of what was happening.
Also, Elena is HIGHLY susceptible to guilt for things where she had little control over what happened where she actually demonstrates less of a guilty conscience when she could control things (I refer you to not being able to handle Esther planning to kill off the Originals, but once Team Mystic Falls was on the offensive trying to do the same thing she could seemingly easily avoid such moral questions).
I don’t know if all that quite makes it work, but take all of it and add that I still ship the two like...not burning but like a slow simmering warmth and I can make it work in my head.
season of suck - part deux
Date: 2013-05-09 09:24 am (UTC)The Elijah mention was interesting...albeit odd. Was this just supposed to be more evidence that Katherine truly loves Elijah? IMO, the ending of 4x20 already provided more than enough evidence regarding her feelings. I *wish* Katherine had been playing him though...at least then I could've taken joy in their break up. Am I giving the writers more credit than they deserve by assuming that this was their way of acknowledging Elena's power over Elijah? It doesn't make any sense though...didn't Kat already hash this out with Elijah? She knew he was upset over Jeremy's death. She also knew that he wasn't going to abandon Klaus to go ride off into the sunset with her. Honestly...the Elijah/Kat thing really bothers me and I'm not referring to my inner Elejah shipper. She gave her heart to a man who hunted her for *centuries* and he threw it back in her face. Another issue is that he broke his word *again*. Unlike the situation/s with Elena, he didn't have a good excuse for not following through on his promise to Katherine. He threw away his only leverage (with Klaus)...basically signing Katherine's death warrant in the process. No wonder she didn't trust him to protect her 500 years ago. It was nice to see him support Rebekah (for all of half an episode) but that grand gesture lost all of its power by the end of 4x20. Elijah dumped Katherine to go play bitch boy (again) to a megalomaniac. He screwed over Katherine *and* Rebekah...for Klaus. Ick. Le sigh...I hate the premise of The Originals. That's not surprising though...it's written by the same people who bring us TVD. sheesh...the writers of TVD have turned me into a bitter fangrrrl. :D
re: Rebekah/Matt...I like the affect that he has on her. They don't have incredible sexual chemistry but their interactions always come across as completely genuine. Besides...I don't think Matt has incredible sexual chemistry with any of the TVD characters. I'd like to see him with someone like Rebekah. If anyone could soften her sharp edges...it's Matt. Maybe this pairing just feeds into my ultimate OTP/Elejah. Step one: Elena becomes selfless again and gives the cure to Rebekah (for some random reason). Step two: Rebekah and Elena continue their friendship (for real this time). Step three: Rebekah constantly harasses Elijah re: his need for his own girlfriend aka Elena Gilbert. Okay...yes...I'm deluded. Wow...this post sort of got away from me. Sorry for the long ramble!
Re: season of suck - part deux
Date: 2013-05-11 05:36 am (UTC)HA.
But in all seriousness, I think there are plenty of reasons why Elena’s mind went to Katherine before Klaus. Mostly, she has hated Katherine longer and more recently than Klaus, plus it’s more personal with the doppelgangers. With Klaus it’s very cold and calculated, she is an object that Klaus has used but really he wouldn’t be jealous not to be her most hated because he just doesn’t care enough for it to matter.
Elena hated Kat before they ever met because she hated what had happened with Stefan and Damon, and when the two of them square off Kat does things that are designed to hurt Elena; maybe as an extension of the Salvatores or with her own goals in mind, but the battles tended to be particularly harsh between them. And of course, Kat killed Jeremy (if we were talking in my AU world where Klaus killed Jeremy I have a different opinion), and that’s what’s sparked Elena into this mode she’s in right now, her focus is on what Kat did to Jeremy. Even when she wouldn’t admit or feel that that was her focus it was, she knew why she left her emotions off and it wasn’t because she actually liked being emotions-off-Elena, she could not handle the loss of Jeremy.
not to imply that I actually consider S4!Elena to be the *real* Elena...'cause I most certainly don't.
Cosigned. I’m rooting for real-Elena to return, and in the absence of that I’d get something out of the Salvatores not being total dicks to s4-Elena, but I haven’t even gotten that.
I *wish* Katherine had been playing him though
Completely agreed. Although I don’t really agree that 4x20 sold her feelings for him as genuine, at least not to me. To me it primarily sold why they don’t work regardless of whether they had real feelings for each other, but in regards to whether they were...it still feels like a lie but more of the self-deception kind than her playing him which yes, was what I wanted. Because outside of all those questions they flat don’t make sense, and Kat deceiving herself in to loving a man who hunted her for centuries just feels like more proof that it didn’t make sense.
Am I giving the writers more credit than they deserve by assuming that this was their way of acknowledging Elena's power over Elijah?
That was weird. Because Elijah definitely brought up Jeremy’s death as the thing Elena said that turned him against her. And at the time, Kat seemed to see that as what got under his skin. The weirdest part is how we as viewers know...that’s about all Elena said outside of some generalities about how Katherine couldn’t be saved and he wasn’t going to find the girl he had loved so long ago (all of which to me sounded to be at least half about Elena herself). Looked at from a certain point of view, it’s not even all that surprising Kat would start to wonder if there hadn’t been more to their talk than just the Jeremy revelation to make him question her.
But by going with that point of view...aren’t the writers sort of admitting that to have that much effect on him, it would take more than just the news of that action? That on paper, what happened between them shouldn’t have turned his head? That Elena didn’t have to say any more because she’s *Elena* and she has that kind of power over Elijah (because he loves her). I’m not sure I would give the writers credit for that...but it does have a certain implication that they even kinda sorta hinted it.
Re: season of suck - part deux
Date: 2013-05-11 05:36 am (UTC)I’m finding I kind of like them as friends with her maybe still having a bit of a crush on him, but I’d like them to acknowledge more that he may never forgive her for the things she’s done. And maybe over time we could see that he could and maybe they have a slim chance of anything else. But nothing on this show is ever given a chance to grow and develop with any kind of natural progression so I don’t know how it could ever make me buy it. And with Rebekah going off to TO next season I really don’t see the point in bringing it back up now.
(Also I tend to think Rebekah would be more prone to telling Elijah he needs more variety in his dating pool before she might eventually encourage him to actually go for Elena. As much as I want to see Elena have awkward family dinners with the Originals, I don’t really see how adding Matt for extra awkward would make it any more enjoyable. But to each their own.)
(Obviously I can ramble too.)