Way too long but there you have it
Dec. 15th, 2007 11:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jedi_of_urthSo before fandom exploded I wrote up this very long rant about all the ways RTD and the Doctor Who PTB are awesome for the way they handled the Doctor/Rose story and now I am inclined to share.
Oh me of little faith: Thoughts on my own expectations and how Doctor Who keeps surpassing them
Alright, here’s something I strangely like telling people, I didn’t start off the show as a Doctor/Rose shipper. It seems strange now to think that there was a time when I didn’t want them to be together as a romantic pair but there was. But to tell this, and set up for later talk I feel the need to back up even more.
I had only seen bits of Doctor Who when I was younger, I knew next to nothing about it really and mostly just coveted the fact that the main character had a really long scarf (even though I never wore scarves as a child). I remember vaguely that I saw ‘The Five Doctors’ and ‘Pyramids of Mars’ at one point because my mom was able to find them at the local video store. I think I may have also seen ‘Kinda’ of all things that way, and for all I know a couple others but I don’t remember very many. I know my parents used to watch it on PBS when I was even younger than that, but I don’t actually remember any of that. I remember thinking Five was cute even if he didn’t have a scarf but having no idea what the characters were doing in ‘Five Doctors’ really.
And really, my first thought when I started seeing previews for New Who was that it was a remake. I thought that was awesome, that someone had decided to remake the show as something new, like Battlestar Galactica (which was probably why I thought it was a remake, I was seeing previews on the Sci-Fi Channel during BSG for the most part). Thinking on it now, I almost think it would have been easier to make something wholly new than the continuation that was actually made, but the show structure made it easy enough to start fresh even though it was built onto the old show.
But, while I was thinking it was re-imagining, or at least more remake than continuation, and not bringing long term fan views to the show, I brought baggage of years of television watching to it; and in many ways, at the start Doctor/Rose pinged on my anti-ship buttons…and they were completely obvious the “it” ship on the show. The truth is Nine was rather emotionally manipulative at the start and before it became clear what had made him that way I had a hard time getting behind it. He had such a tough guy exterior which is so not my thing that again, I had to see past that. She had a boyfriend who was seemed quite plainly there just to keep the “it” couple apart and I seem to be one of the rare people who liked Mickey from the start, or at least felt sorry for him.
And if a show is going to have such an obvious “it” couple, for me they really have to earn it and the first time through, the first few episodes didn’t seem anything special. It just seemed like a normal show, throwing shippy prospects out there but not willing to go anywhere with it, not making it mean anything. Yes I know better now, but the first time through it…look I did, and to a lesser extent still do, ship Kara/Lee but if the writers are willing to make their relationship count and stick more than a few episodes before the end of the series I’ll be surprised, and if I’ll still want it if/when they do I’ll be surprised by that too.
The first few episodes steadily made me love Rose and the Doctor as individuals but when it came to them as a couple I still was looking at it cock-eyed, thinking “They want me to ship these two but really, why should I?” Well I got my answer with one line, “I could save the world but lose you.”
And just like that my view of the show was righted, I realized I’d been looking at it backwards, this suddenly seemed it wasn’t a case of the writers just having an “it” couple to have some UST in the show that might never be justified let alone matter; they were playing honest with me in fact, they were writing a love story. There was nothing coy or subtextual about that line, that seemed an open declaration of the show’s intent regarding the romance aspect.
And I didn’t have a gap between watching season 1 and 2, but if I had I probably would have expected the writers to use the regeneration as an excuse to reset the relationship, to throw roadblocks in the way of their lead couple and pull them back from the point they got to in PotW. If television watching has taught me anything it’s that forward motion of romance plots tends to be slowed, halted, or reversed at the earliest opportunity.
But again RTD didn’t follow that expectation (the one I never had the chance to have), instead we got TCI, and yes she was unsure how to react but then he woke up and smiled at her, asked if she thought he was sexy, and she knew it was him. And he came to dinner with her and her family and they held hands and watched the ash-snow fall. And on top of that there was Song for Ten, which even before I knew was an original composition I thought was a pretty blatant declaration when it came to the love story, and again, being blatant about a love story like this still surprises me.
By the end of season 2 I was at least enough in fandom to know that a) Rose was leaving and b) people were toting out the “companions leave” bat. So there was all kinds of speculation about how Rose would leave the Doctor, how she would chose to go home and “have her own life,” or even that he would leave her behind. And if I were to go looking I could probably find some statements of mine to the effect of “It doesn’t really make sense but they could pull something out of left field since we know she’s going to leave.” And when the only “reasonable” options seem to be her dying or choosing to leave, and when you also know that killing main characters isn’t standard procedure on most any show, the from left field leaving option seems likely. And anyway, who can expect reasonable character development when it comes to dealing with main actors leaving shows?
Apparently, Russell T. Davis does, that’s who. To give us scenes of “Forever” and “I made my choice a long time ago.” To need the war in heaven to split up a couple, to need a whole universe (or two) to come between them. To make walls and beaches heartbreaking, to have the Doctor cry, to have him burn up a sun just to say goodbye. Oh the cut off “I love you,” is in fact a total cliché, to deny the characters and viewers hearing the words but I don’t think I’ve ever heard any member of the production team *seriously* deny that was what he would have said.
But that didn’t make me trust them going into season 3. I’ve still watched enough TV to expect grief to be short, and/or subtextual at best. I think I was more prone to saying “How are they *not* going to make The Runaway Bride all about grief?” but I figured they would, it sounded like it would be fairly comedic, and I figured after that we would have heard the last of Rose and while there might be *some* subtext there to pick over the show would move on.
We’ve all seen TRB and season 3 right? I was wrong again. Yes there were madcap adventures but there is an awful lot that is about Rose and the Doctor’s grief after having just lost her. TRB went beyond my expectations as far as that went and I *still* hadn’t learned to trust the writers because it was possible (or I thought probable) that while they had had been faithful to the emotional context considering the fact that TRB immediately followed Doomsday, there was no reason to expect that to carry over into the next season when they could easily shove it into the background like most normal shows would. Only they didn’t.
They didn’t try and downplay how much Rose had meant to him, or how much losing her hurt him. They didn’t have the Doctor move on to another love interest as soon as Rose was gone. They didn’t treat people as interchangeable parts in the Doctor’s life. They didn’t even forget that Jack loved her too when the time came for him to come back, in fact they went above and beyond my wildest expectations with having Jack admit to watching Rose grow up.
So now, with the spoilers that Billie Piper is coming back, I think I have finally learned to have faith in this team. I have my worries yes, I have concerns depending on how long she’s staying, and I wouldn’t really be surprised if it ends in tears again. But…I think there’s a pretty slim chance that whatever happens it’s going to destroy the Doctor/Rose ship. Beach it again maybe, but actually destroy what is one of the greatest love stories I’ve seen…? When it has survived and grown when one of the parties isn’t even there? When she’s the name that keeps him fighting, his star, the one thing he believes in, and his perfect Rose?
To put it another way, they had their chance to kill it, they had their chance to sweep it aside, they had their chance to reverse direction on it, they had their chance to pretend it away. They didn’t do any of that and now if they tried it wouldn’t fit; but I don’t believe they would try. They believe in this too, they’ve committed to it, they made their choice a long time ago.
I’m still cautious enough to know my hopes may well be too high, and try to keep my expectations low. But even my lowest expectations won’t allow them to part by choice. Even my sarcastic, low expectations of TV portrayals of romance side thinks they’re going to have to invent some pretty good reasons to get around kisses and declarations of love this time because even though it isn’t “supposed” to happen on the show it’s exactly what *should* happen. And now, I think trust them to know that much at least.
Trust is just a different sort of scary.
Oh me of little faith: Thoughts on my own expectations and how Doctor Who keeps surpassing them
Alright, here’s something I strangely like telling people, I didn’t start off the show as a Doctor/Rose shipper. It seems strange now to think that there was a time when I didn’t want them to be together as a romantic pair but there was. But to tell this, and set up for later talk I feel the need to back up even more.
I had only seen bits of Doctor Who when I was younger, I knew next to nothing about it really and mostly just coveted the fact that the main character had a really long scarf (even though I never wore scarves as a child). I remember vaguely that I saw ‘The Five Doctors’ and ‘Pyramids of Mars’ at one point because my mom was able to find them at the local video store. I think I may have also seen ‘Kinda’ of all things that way, and for all I know a couple others but I don’t remember very many. I know my parents used to watch it on PBS when I was even younger than that, but I don’t actually remember any of that. I remember thinking Five was cute even if he didn’t have a scarf but having no idea what the characters were doing in ‘Five Doctors’ really.
And really, my first thought when I started seeing previews for New Who was that it was a remake. I thought that was awesome, that someone had decided to remake the show as something new, like Battlestar Galactica (which was probably why I thought it was a remake, I was seeing previews on the Sci-Fi Channel during BSG for the most part). Thinking on it now, I almost think it would have been easier to make something wholly new than the continuation that was actually made, but the show structure made it easy enough to start fresh even though it was built onto the old show.
But, while I was thinking it was re-imagining, or at least more remake than continuation, and not bringing long term fan views to the show, I brought baggage of years of television watching to it; and in many ways, at the start Doctor/Rose pinged on my anti-ship buttons…and they were completely obvious the “it” ship on the show. The truth is Nine was rather emotionally manipulative at the start and before it became clear what had made him that way I had a hard time getting behind it. He had such a tough guy exterior which is so not my thing that again, I had to see past that. She had a boyfriend who was seemed quite plainly there just to keep the “it” couple apart and I seem to be one of the rare people who liked Mickey from the start, or at least felt sorry for him.
And if a show is going to have such an obvious “it” couple, for me they really have to earn it and the first time through, the first few episodes didn’t seem anything special. It just seemed like a normal show, throwing shippy prospects out there but not willing to go anywhere with it, not making it mean anything. Yes I know better now, but the first time through it…look I did, and to a lesser extent still do, ship Kara/Lee but if the writers are willing to make their relationship count and stick more than a few episodes before the end of the series I’ll be surprised, and if I’ll still want it if/when they do I’ll be surprised by that too.
The first few episodes steadily made me love Rose and the Doctor as individuals but when it came to them as a couple I still was looking at it cock-eyed, thinking “They want me to ship these two but really, why should I?” Well I got my answer with one line, “I could save the world but lose you.”
And just like that my view of the show was righted, I realized I’d been looking at it backwards, this suddenly seemed it wasn’t a case of the writers just having an “it” couple to have some UST in the show that might never be justified let alone matter; they were playing honest with me in fact, they were writing a love story. There was nothing coy or subtextual about that line, that seemed an open declaration of the show’s intent regarding the romance aspect.
And I didn’t have a gap between watching season 1 and 2, but if I had I probably would have expected the writers to use the regeneration as an excuse to reset the relationship, to throw roadblocks in the way of their lead couple and pull them back from the point they got to in PotW. If television watching has taught me anything it’s that forward motion of romance plots tends to be slowed, halted, or reversed at the earliest opportunity.
But again RTD didn’t follow that expectation (the one I never had the chance to have), instead we got TCI, and yes she was unsure how to react but then he woke up and smiled at her, asked if she thought he was sexy, and she knew it was him. And he came to dinner with her and her family and they held hands and watched the ash-snow fall. And on top of that there was Song for Ten, which even before I knew was an original composition I thought was a pretty blatant declaration when it came to the love story, and again, being blatant about a love story like this still surprises me.
By the end of season 2 I was at least enough in fandom to know that a) Rose was leaving and b) people were toting out the “companions leave” bat. So there was all kinds of speculation about how Rose would leave the Doctor, how she would chose to go home and “have her own life,” or even that he would leave her behind. And if I were to go looking I could probably find some statements of mine to the effect of “It doesn’t really make sense but they could pull something out of left field since we know she’s going to leave.” And when the only “reasonable” options seem to be her dying or choosing to leave, and when you also know that killing main characters isn’t standard procedure on most any show, the from left field leaving option seems likely. And anyway, who can expect reasonable character development when it comes to dealing with main actors leaving shows?
Apparently, Russell T. Davis does, that’s who. To give us scenes of “Forever” and “I made my choice a long time ago.” To need the war in heaven to split up a couple, to need a whole universe (or two) to come between them. To make walls and beaches heartbreaking, to have the Doctor cry, to have him burn up a sun just to say goodbye. Oh the cut off “I love you,” is in fact a total cliché, to deny the characters and viewers hearing the words but I don’t think I’ve ever heard any member of the production team *seriously* deny that was what he would have said.
But that didn’t make me trust them going into season 3. I’ve still watched enough TV to expect grief to be short, and/or subtextual at best. I think I was more prone to saying “How are they *not* going to make The Runaway Bride all about grief?” but I figured they would, it sounded like it would be fairly comedic, and I figured after that we would have heard the last of Rose and while there might be *some* subtext there to pick over the show would move on.
We’ve all seen TRB and season 3 right? I was wrong again. Yes there were madcap adventures but there is an awful lot that is about Rose and the Doctor’s grief after having just lost her. TRB went beyond my expectations as far as that went and I *still* hadn’t learned to trust the writers because it was possible (or I thought probable) that while they had had been faithful to the emotional context considering the fact that TRB immediately followed Doomsday, there was no reason to expect that to carry over into the next season when they could easily shove it into the background like most normal shows would. Only they didn’t.
They didn’t try and downplay how much Rose had meant to him, or how much losing her hurt him. They didn’t have the Doctor move on to another love interest as soon as Rose was gone. They didn’t treat people as interchangeable parts in the Doctor’s life. They didn’t even forget that Jack loved her too when the time came for him to come back, in fact they went above and beyond my wildest expectations with having Jack admit to watching Rose grow up.
So now, with the spoilers that Billie Piper is coming back, I think I have finally learned to have faith in this team. I have my worries yes, I have concerns depending on how long she’s staying, and I wouldn’t really be surprised if it ends in tears again. But…I think there’s a pretty slim chance that whatever happens it’s going to destroy the Doctor/Rose ship. Beach it again maybe, but actually destroy what is one of the greatest love stories I’ve seen…? When it has survived and grown when one of the parties isn’t even there? When she’s the name that keeps him fighting, his star, the one thing he believes in, and his perfect Rose?
To put it another way, they had their chance to kill it, they had their chance to sweep it aside, they had their chance to reverse direction on it, they had their chance to pretend it away. They didn’t do any of that and now if they tried it wouldn’t fit; but I don’t believe they would try. They believe in this too, they’ve committed to it, they made their choice a long time ago.
I’m still cautious enough to know my hopes may well be too high, and try to keep my expectations low. But even my lowest expectations won’t allow them to part by choice. Even my sarcastic, low expectations of TV portrayals of romance side thinks they’re going to have to invent some pretty good reasons to get around kisses and declarations of love this time because even though it isn’t “supposed” to happen on the show it’s exactly what *should* happen. And now, I think trust them to know that much at least.
Trust is just a different sort of scary.
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no subject
Date: 2007-12-16 07:07 pm (UTC)I'd love to know, when it's all over one way or another, whether the plan was to do it all along, or whether it grew organically from Chris and Billie's chemistry together. Some of the comments on the S1 scripts do suggest the latter.
And something that has always intrigued me was, why the "forever" scene in AOG? In context, it was so provocative and apparently unnecessary to the plot. With hindsight, I think it was the writers' commitment to the ship, and to the viewers, that ultimately things would work out, whatever happened along the way.
no subject
Date: 2007-12-16 08:25 pm (UTC)I tend to think a combination I suppose. Or more, they saw it early enough that it became such a focus of the series because there's an awful lot even in season 1 that, you just *don't* give characters those lines and actions unless you're portraying it as a romance.
why the "forever" scene in AOG? In context, it was so provocative and apparently unnecessary to the plot.
Well, I usually see that as one of the most Joss-y things done on the show, to show just how much they stand to lose, and by the end of the story do. Show them at their happiest, their more coupley, their most certain, just so that it can be ripped away.