DW S3 Deleted scenes talking
Nov. 11th, 2007 07:04 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jedi_of_urthHaving now seen all of the deleted scenes, for those interested I babble a lot about them (I might revisit talking about a few of them for more shippy analysis, though it's not like I shy from shippy here).
TRB 50-51 (51 alt) “Not much of a chase”
-It cute, not necessary, but it is cute. The Doctor stuffed in the back of the tiny car, Donna not wanted to go to jail in her wedding dress, the world in peril worrying about speed limits. I’m sure they cute it for time reasons, with so much packed into the episode so I can forgive this one, though I wouldn’t have minded it they had had the room. I think I prefer the version without the pink car though, the camera angels weren’t as weird, and the car being pink is a bit much.
TRB 72x “The size of it all”
-I kind of wish they’d kept the longer version of this, tying Lance’s behavior back to the invasion in Doomsday. Making him the one the Doctor can kind of identify with, they’re more alike than it’s comfortable to admit.
TSC 34 “The last day of human kind”
-I’m okay with cutting this one, but then, the witches didn’t really do it for me and most of the point seems to be to recap what happened and have some gratuitous cackling.
TSC 76x “We’re a lot alike”
-I really wish they’d kept this one in the long version. Of course I don’t really get enough reminders that the Doctor is an emo Time Lord, particularly in an episode so full of Rose’s influence. So much of what was said, particularly, “we go on hoping because we must,” was just necessary I think, especially as it ties in with “that name keeps me fighting” (and yes I am just that fully believing it’s about Rose more than Gallifrey, the whole episode was).
DiM 8 “The scenic route”
-Well, I would have been curious to see how this edited into the episode, because I don’t think the tone here quite matches preceding their landing. But it’s not as if the episode couldn’t have used a little more stuff in it. To be quite frank this is how I think the Doctor is at his most jerkish with Martha, really trying to make it clear he doesn’t want her to stick around even though he doesn’t really want to be on his own, he’s sure trying to make her think he wants to be. I kind of think the “things just getting away from us” implication in the sired version tracks better with Gridlock too, rather than another big production of stretching the definition of “one trip.”
DiM 11x “So what did you bring”
-Yeah that was pretty unnecessary. Solomon is kind of a jerk to the Doctor and Martha when I’m not sure what his reasons are; well actually I suppose it could be realistic, but Solomon is not all that realistic a character so this seems a misstep. So yeah, not a bad move to cut it.
DiM 59x “Into show-tunes”
-Well, it’s cute, but I think the “into musical theater” joke didn’t need more repetition. But then I like Tallulah so I’m not sure I would mind. You know, Tallulah’s more like Donna, not looking into the bigger picture really, and the Doctor is totally ignoring her, and yet they still have better chemistry than the Doctor and Martha.
EotD 9 “Can they follow us up?”
-Well Tallulah is actually kind of annoying but Frank is a sweetie and I think I wish they’d kept it in because it shows they had a reason for going back to Hooverville in the first place. Also Martha seems actually…smart.
EotD 12a “Stupid mud on my stupid feet”
-Well Tallulah may be whiney but at least she has a decent cause to be. And she may whine but at least she’s not playing chicken with Daleks in her grief and fear. It is good to see the Frank-Solomon reunion which got skipped over in the show (though I’m kind of singing “Guy Love” for them). Although I think I really miss Rose here, Rose would have actually tried to comfort Tallulah, hell pre-Doomsday the Doctor might have too. I’m not sure this would have fit well pacing wise, but it would have been nice.
EotD 74 c2 “How many victims?”
-Why the hell did they cut that? The episode damn well needed that scene, Sec might not be less evil but this is still the bloody Cult of frakking Skaro, the Doctor wouldn’t just let bygones be bygones if they got all reformed. And not that the scene really needed more Rose undertones but just try and convince me he wasn’t thinking about Doomsday there. Damn it, if Dalek Sec had just talked a little faster maybe we could have gotten that scene.
TLE 3 “More worried about the dress”
-I can’t decide about this one, I like having more contrast between the Doctor’s treatment of Rose and Martha, and it fits in well, and it feels kind of like the point of the scene actually and…yet I’m not sure how I feel about it. It wasn’t, strictly speaking necessary, but I do hope it’s considered canon, further proof that unless you’re Rose Tyler, even fishing for compliments isn’t going to get you far.
HN 31 “Don’t let me eat pears”
-It is cute, and having more pages of the journal to decipher is nice, and it makes me all the more curious what the rest of the instructions were. But it’s a bit light for this episode (although subtextually it foreshadows Martha’s failure to keep him safe) and it wasn’t all that important in the grand scheme of things. So while nice, I can understand it.
HN 30-34 “Lippy tappy to ta”
-Oh DT you are so cute. It’s not as if this was really a cute scene as such, so I really don’t have much to add, except to restate that it is adorable.
HN 44x “Stop following me”
-I have to say I think I’m glad they abbreviated that, I didn’t need to have little Lucy Cartwright always have been that damn creepy of a child, rather than became one through being possessed.
HN 58 “Talking Italian”
-They really did cut anything approaching humor out of this episode didn’t they? I’m not even sure I liked that, but I’m starting to remember just how non-funny that arc was and thinking it wouldn’t have hurt to have just a bit of fun.
FoB 8 “Is he better than me?”
-I wish they’d been able to leave this in, I’m sure it was cut for time and because most of it is also covered elsewhere, but damn is it heartbreaking; as if the episode needed more of that. And it connects other parts of the story, him saying it’s his fault and Joan saying it at the end. But Martha saying *in front of Joan* that John’s life was all a lie, and agreeing that the Doctor is “better” than John, bitch SHUT UP. John Smith may be a racist, classist, coward who still manages to write Doctor/Rose fanfic but he’s a lot more like the Doctor than you give him credit for.
FoB 40 “Quickly”
-Umm, that’s just more running down corridors, nothing really to report so yeah, not necessary.
FoB 60 “Will you trust me?”
-This is a really nice scene, but I’m kind of glad they cut it none the less. I think it was good choice to have Tim show up at the house and it not be clear to the audience it would be (alright, not really unclear, but not a given). Kind of an interesting way to parallel the Doctor and Martha with Latimer and Hutchinson with the “Do/will you trust me” bit. It’s really well acted and all, but I don’t think it really fit in.
Blick 69 alt “Don’t anything to prevent the creation of your own species”
-Since I can’t remember much about how the scene actually went I’m not sure what to say about the alternate version of the emergency program.
LotTL 82x “Just sounds good”
-I like it in theory, but I don’t think the performances really work, or maybe it would have worked better in close shot. But the lines are a hoot to anyone like me who has though that Torchwood opening is weird (or maybe that’s what the scene needed, for it to sound as pretentious as in the TW opening and the Doctor to just blandly ask what that means, and then them laughing it off). I wish it had been better before I wish it had been included, but if it had been better I would *really* wish it had been included.
TRB 50-51 (51 alt) “Not much of a chase”
-It cute, not necessary, but it is cute. The Doctor stuffed in the back of the tiny car, Donna not wanted to go to jail in her wedding dress, the world in peril worrying about speed limits. I’m sure they cute it for time reasons, with so much packed into the episode so I can forgive this one, though I wouldn’t have minded it they had had the room. I think I prefer the version without the pink car though, the camera angels weren’t as weird, and the car being pink is a bit much.
TRB 72x “The size of it all”
-I kind of wish they’d kept the longer version of this, tying Lance’s behavior back to the invasion in Doomsday. Making him the one the Doctor can kind of identify with, they’re more alike than it’s comfortable to admit.
TSC 34 “The last day of human kind”
-I’m okay with cutting this one, but then, the witches didn’t really do it for me and most of the point seems to be to recap what happened and have some gratuitous cackling.
TSC 76x “We’re a lot alike”
-I really wish they’d kept this one in the long version. Of course I don’t really get enough reminders that the Doctor is an emo Time Lord, particularly in an episode so full of Rose’s influence. So much of what was said, particularly, “we go on hoping because we must,” was just necessary I think, especially as it ties in with “that name keeps me fighting” (and yes I am just that fully believing it’s about Rose more than Gallifrey, the whole episode was).
DiM 8 “The scenic route”
-Well, I would have been curious to see how this edited into the episode, because I don’t think the tone here quite matches preceding their landing. But it’s not as if the episode couldn’t have used a little more stuff in it. To be quite frank this is how I think the Doctor is at his most jerkish with Martha, really trying to make it clear he doesn’t want her to stick around even though he doesn’t really want to be on his own, he’s sure trying to make her think he wants to be. I kind of think the “things just getting away from us” implication in the sired version tracks better with Gridlock too, rather than another big production of stretching the definition of “one trip.”
DiM 11x “So what did you bring”
-Yeah that was pretty unnecessary. Solomon is kind of a jerk to the Doctor and Martha when I’m not sure what his reasons are; well actually I suppose it could be realistic, but Solomon is not all that realistic a character so this seems a misstep. So yeah, not a bad move to cut it.
DiM 59x “Into show-tunes”
-Well, it’s cute, but I think the “into musical theater” joke didn’t need more repetition. But then I like Tallulah so I’m not sure I would mind. You know, Tallulah’s more like Donna, not looking into the bigger picture really, and the Doctor is totally ignoring her, and yet they still have better chemistry than the Doctor and Martha.
EotD 9 “Can they follow us up?”
-Well Tallulah is actually kind of annoying but Frank is a sweetie and I think I wish they’d kept it in because it shows they had a reason for going back to Hooverville in the first place. Also Martha seems actually…smart.
EotD 12a “Stupid mud on my stupid feet”
-Well Tallulah may be whiney but at least she has a decent cause to be. And she may whine but at least she’s not playing chicken with Daleks in her grief and fear. It is good to see the Frank-Solomon reunion which got skipped over in the show (though I’m kind of singing “Guy Love” for them). Although I think I really miss Rose here, Rose would have actually tried to comfort Tallulah, hell pre-Doomsday the Doctor might have too. I’m not sure this would have fit well pacing wise, but it would have been nice.
EotD 74 c2 “How many victims?”
-Why the hell did they cut that? The episode damn well needed that scene, Sec might not be less evil but this is still the bloody Cult of frakking Skaro, the Doctor wouldn’t just let bygones be bygones if they got all reformed. And not that the scene really needed more Rose undertones but just try and convince me he wasn’t thinking about Doomsday there. Damn it, if Dalek Sec had just talked a little faster maybe we could have gotten that scene.
TLE 3 “More worried about the dress”
-I can’t decide about this one, I like having more contrast between the Doctor’s treatment of Rose and Martha, and it fits in well, and it feels kind of like the point of the scene actually and…yet I’m not sure how I feel about it. It wasn’t, strictly speaking necessary, but I do hope it’s considered canon, further proof that unless you’re Rose Tyler, even fishing for compliments isn’t going to get you far.
HN 31 “Don’t let me eat pears”
-It is cute, and having more pages of the journal to decipher is nice, and it makes me all the more curious what the rest of the instructions were. But it’s a bit light for this episode (although subtextually it foreshadows Martha’s failure to keep him safe) and it wasn’t all that important in the grand scheme of things. So while nice, I can understand it.
HN 30-34 “Lippy tappy to ta”
-Oh DT you are so cute. It’s not as if this was really a cute scene as such, so I really don’t have much to add, except to restate that it is adorable.
HN 44x “Stop following me”
-I have to say I think I’m glad they abbreviated that, I didn’t need to have little Lucy Cartwright always have been that damn creepy of a child, rather than became one through being possessed.
HN 58 “Talking Italian”
-They really did cut anything approaching humor out of this episode didn’t they? I’m not even sure I liked that, but I’m starting to remember just how non-funny that arc was and thinking it wouldn’t have hurt to have just a bit of fun.
FoB 8 “Is he better than me?”
-I wish they’d been able to leave this in, I’m sure it was cut for time and because most of it is also covered elsewhere, but damn is it heartbreaking; as if the episode needed more of that. And it connects other parts of the story, him saying it’s his fault and Joan saying it at the end. But Martha saying *in front of Joan* that John’s life was all a lie, and agreeing that the Doctor is “better” than John, bitch SHUT UP. John Smith may be a racist, classist, coward who still manages to write Doctor/Rose fanfic but he’s a lot more like the Doctor than you give him credit for.
FoB 40 “Quickly”
-Umm, that’s just more running down corridors, nothing really to report so yeah, not necessary.
FoB 60 “Will you trust me?”
-This is a really nice scene, but I’m kind of glad they cut it none the less. I think it was good choice to have Tim show up at the house and it not be clear to the audience it would be (alright, not really unclear, but not a given). Kind of an interesting way to parallel the Doctor and Martha with Latimer and Hutchinson with the “Do/will you trust me” bit. It’s really well acted and all, but I don’t think it really fit in.
Blick 69 alt “Don’t anything to prevent the creation of your own species”
-Since I can’t remember much about how the scene actually went I’m not sure what to say about the alternate version of the emergency program.
LotTL 82x “Just sounds good”
-I like it in theory, but I don’t think the performances really work, or maybe it would have worked better in close shot. But the lines are a hoot to anyone like me who has though that Torchwood opening is weird (or maybe that’s what the scene needed, for it to sound as pretentious as in the TW opening and the Doctor to just blandly ask what that means, and then them laughing it off). I wish it had been better before I wish it had been included, but if it had been better I would *really* wish it had been included.
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no subject
Date: 2007-11-12 02:05 pm (UTC)"-I wish they’d been able to leave this in, I’m sure it was cut for time and because most of it is also covered elsewhere, but damn is it heartbreaking; as if the episode needed more of that. And it connects other parts of the story, him saying it’s his fault and Joan saying it at the end. But Martha saying *in front of Joan* that John’s life was all a lie, and agreeing that the Doctor is “better” than John, bitch SHUT UP. John Smith may be a racist, classist, coward who still manages to write Doctor/Rose fanfic but he’s a lot more like the Doctor than you give him credit for."
Most of the fans (mostly Martha fans) are unfair with John... He was just a man of his time...
Lol... and the "writes D/R fan fics" is sooo true!
no subject
Date: 2007-11-14 05:24 am (UTC)Exactly, and what's more he is still a good man, and he's reflecting a lot of the Doctor, just...as a human man from 1913. It when he smiles that I can't ever wish him to go back to being the Doctor as he is now; he used to be that guy, better and...the Doctor, but at least as John he's happy.
the "writes D/R fan fics" is sooo true!
I can't remember who started that idea, but it is so true isn't it?
no subject
Date: 2007-11-14 04:36 am (UTC)Cute. I'm a bit disappointed that we didn't see David's folks and nieces, but I suppose they didn't want to have any supporting artists shown?
TRB The Size of It All:
I don't know that this creates/strengthens a parallel between Lance and the Doctor. I think it's more of an obvious parallel between the people who choose to travel with the Doctor and Lance. Lance, for lack of a better term, is the Evil Leaper.
TSC 34 “The last day of human kind”:
Repetition of a point we've already seen.
TSC 76x “We’re a lot alike”:
They should've kept that, although I suppose they felt like perhaps it was a bit odd for Shakespeare to talk about being dark when we didn't really see it in this episode.
DiM 8 “The scenic route”:
I'm torn on this one. In some ways, I think it makes Martha somewhat more sympathetic, and makes her poutiness at the start of TLE more understandable, since there would have been a conversation that makes it possible that she might have reason to think the Doctor is looking for reasons to keep her with him. However, it's not germane to the episode and delays getting into the action.
DiM 11x “So what did you bring”
I actually thought there was some of the other dialogue from this extended scene that this could have subbed in for. Harsh, but honest, and less speechy/preachy than what we saw.
DiM 59x “Into show-tunes”
Cute, but I can understand why they cut it. Tallulah semi-macking on the Doctor isn't really necessary.
EotD 9 “Can they follow us up?”
I think this provided a specific impetus for going back to Hooverville, but perhaps they figured it was a point that was so obvious it didn't need to be made.
EotD 12a “Stupid mud on my stupid feet”
I think this would have functioned to make Martha look better through comparison. Perhaps they thought it was so over the top?
EotD 74 c2 “How many victims?”
I don't know why they cut this. I think it would've played up the Doctor's compassion even farther, because despite his full, constant awareness of the cruel legacy of the Daleks, he was willing to help them.
TLE 3 “More worried about the dress”
I liked this scene, yet another reference to the Doctor's time spent in the time of the Revolutionary War. If they've been trying to set that up as a historical, they really should've left this in. Besides, it provides the reason for the shoes comment later on.
HN 31 “Don’t let me eat pears”
They should have left this in, but since they seemed to be performing a mirthectomy, I understand why they cut it.
HN 30-34 “Lippy tappy to ta”
Interesting that they had him playing Just A Minute, which of course he wasn't allowed to say since he'd just used the word 'minute.' He's so very endearing.
HN 44x “Stop following me”
Totally unnecessary, and fittingly cut.
HN 58 “Talking Italian”
I loved this bit, but if they were cutting all frivolity, it had to go. If it had been a scene earlier where Martha was present, it might've given us a reason for Martha to think that getting the Doctor back wouldn't be that hard. Versus her randomly slapping Smith for no apparent reason other than out of frustration.
FoB 8 “Is he better than me?”
Somewhat duplicative of scenes that surround it, so if they had to cut something I understand why they cut this, but still...
FoB 40 “Quickly”
A quick nip and tuck of no consequence.
FoB 60 “Will you trust me?”
Eh. This seemed a bit forced and mostly pointless. It also made Tim look like he was trying to enforce a new pecking order, which isn't really his bag.
Blick 69 alt “Don’t anything to prevent the creation of your own species”
Cute, but not altogether necessary - and anyway, unless he thinks he's going to end up creating a bunch of these things willy-nilly and he knows the machine's going to 1969, why would he say this?
LotTL 82x “Just sounds good”
This needed to be a close shot to capture the full glory of what should've been the Doctor's completely incredulous face. One would almost suspect that the leads failed to sell it because they weren't that fond of kicking the fourth wall quite so hard, and hoped it would be cut. Or perhaps it was the Director's purposeful doing. I could easily see this exchange coming back later, though, particularly if they decide to bring Jack back before 11.
no subject
Date: 2007-11-14 05:39 am (UTC)Cute. I'm a bit disappointed that we didn't see David's folks and nieces
I'd forgotten about that bit and now I miss it too.
TRB The Size of It All:
I don't know that this creates/strengthens a parallel between Lance and the Doctor. I think it's more of an obvious parallel between the people who choose to travel with the Doctor and Lance.
I remember going on about Lance as the dark parallel for companions in my TRB recap, and I'm in no way denying that he is (obviously) but having his reason for become that tied in with Doomsday connects him to the Doctor, who's a dark parallel of himself pre-Doomsday.
DiM 11x “So what did you bring”
I actually thought there was some of the other dialogue from this extended scene that this could have subbed in for. Harsh, but honest, and less speechy/preachy than what we saw.
The less preachy aspect was kind of my point. The rest of the time Solomon is written so preachy and speechifying that him being bitter and...rude here didn't track with the rest of the characterization even if it was one hint of reality in him.
EotD 74 c2 “How many victims?”
I don't know why they cut this. I think it would've played up the Doctor's compassion even farther, because despite his full, constant awareness of the cruel legacy of the Daleks, he was willing to help them.
I think I can agree to that, but the episode did need a reminder that the Doctor wasn't suffering from brain damage when it came to remembering he was dealing with the Daleks (obviously mentally disturbed in other ways not withstanding).
FoB 60 “Will you trust me?”
Eh. This seemed a bit forced and mostly pointless. It also made Tim look like he was trying to enforce a new pecking order, which isn't really his bag.
I'll agree with that too I suppose. Tim stepping up to the plate without enforcing pecking order was just fine. I still think it was well done, but would have been a kind of bad fit.
One would almost suspect that the leads failed to sell it because they weren't that fond of kicking the fourth wall quite so hard, and hoped it would be cut. Or perhaps it was the Director's purposeful doing.
I was sort of wondering is somewhere along the line someone sabotaged the scene. I mean, I'd adore kicking the fourth wall just that hard. And I would have much rather had Jack leave on a fourth wall joke than the Face of Boe idea, because I still hate that idea.