Thoughts on the rest of RH s1
Oct. 30th, 2016 11:33 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jedi_of_urthY'all should know by now that I'm actually well ahead by the time I post my thoughts, since I'm basically done I figure I should be posting more.
Robin Hood 1x08
A lot of my usual checks regarding character seem a little out of place, because the framing of things here is so different. There’s a shameful level of Much abuse, but it’s framed as wrong; Robin’s an ass to Marian, but it’s framed as wrong; Robin acts incredibly superior and holier than thou to everyone, but it’s framed as wrong. I actually don’t dislike Robin in this one, as I’ve said before I can handle Robin the flawed man trying to be a hero, what I hate is Robin the sanctimonious asshole that the show frames as goodness and light.
I’m of two minds about the treatment of the Gang in general here. I hate that they apparently can’t do anything without Robin and therefore no one can later go ‘gotta ask, why are you leading us, asshole?’ but they are shown to be the ones with their heads on straight and able to see clearly. Robin needs them to keep on the right path as much as they need him to lead them as they do things.
I’m not sure if it’s good or terrible writing but Guy’s arguments don’t even go together much less seem thought out. One minute he against making peace with the Turk, the next he’s against Richard because he left to fight in the first place. *But* since the plan and goal are actually Vasey’s, Guy’s reasons for doing it aren’t going to make a lot of sense. It’s weird, because the performance is that of a true believer, but the lines don’t support that, the lines mean we have to pick and choose what he actually believes and what Vasey fed him to say, and what he’s just saying for the moment. And if I’m really willing to stretch my belief in the writers’ use of the flashback episode in s3, there’s a shade of Guy being angry with his dad for going off and fighting the holy land when he points out how useless it is to Robin.
I always knew Marian’s engagement ring this time looked cheap but in HD it looks *really* cheap. It’s probably still better than any of her rings from Robin if memory serves me.
The episode is really the first one that reshapes Marian’s thoughts on Guy. Up until now we’ve never really gotten any idea she would doubt Robin’s accusations at all. And yet here she really doesn’t seem to want to believe them (an attitude she will keep until almost her last episode). She still obviously doesn’t want to marry him and doesn’t think much of him, but she isn’t exactly inclined to side against him on everything just on Robin’s say so. It doesn’t help that Robin is off his rocker here and she’s also protecting him from himself, but while I’m not sure if she’s stirred by Guy exactly, we’re given reason to wonder if maybe on some level she is.
Wow, for an episode I really like and has lot of relevance to things I care about, I can think of shockingly little to say.
Robin Hood 1x09
While I still think this episode title better fit the themes of the Tom episode, it’s still a factor here so I don’t exactly object.
While there is some Much abuse in this one, most of it comes off as friendly ribbing especially between Robin and Much, and I don’t expect say Allan to have to be as good to Much as I think Robin should be. Also meta wise, Much/Eve is one of the big unfinished story points of the series which is a kind of Much abuse. While my heart belongs to Robin being Much’s great love, I think he deserved a follow up story with Eve, although unless it was going to be Much’s send off (and as he would never leave Robin that’s unlikely until at least post series and even then his loyalty to Robin probably extends beyond death) I’m not sure what different they could bring to it from where they left it here.
This episode is actually a pretty decent Robin episode in spite of him not really being the focus. Aside from a little by-proxy dickishness to Much (which actually Marian is maybe a bit less kind about it than Robin would have been, but I’ve always kind of gotten the feeling the two of them didn’t exactly get along except for Robin’s sake so her having to be their go-between wasn’t really on her wish list), a less-than-average-but-still-there level of dickishness to Marian, and a level of hate for Guy that grates on me but after last ep is probably understandable for him, Robin’s not bad this episode. Really if we’d carried on with the Robin of much of s1 I’d probably remember him a lot more fondly; on the other hand if we’d continued with the Guy of much of s1 I’d likely remember the show as a whole less fondly, so you win some you lose some.
So, about Guy then...loads to unpack here. This is kind of our first glimmer of the chance that there are better angels of Guy’s nature. This is our first time seeing the Vasey-Guy-Marian situation as a battle for Guy’s soul, that both Vasey and Marian can pull him towards their side with the right words and proper arm touching. And I wonder if looking back, Marian started seeing it that way at this point too. She’d have a long way to go to pull him back to the light, but if she could find the way she could at least pull him out of total darkness. But Vasey’s grip is strong and the experienced one at this point, but damn that scene where he talks Guy around is super uncomfortable to watch, not because Guy at present was poised to come very far around, but because we know this kind seduction to the dark side has been happening for years, we see in that conversation the continuing corruption of a man who was maybe never quite good, but didn’t have to be bad.
My reviews appear to be getting shorter, more hit the high points and move on...for now.
Robin Hood 1x10
I have to confess if there’s one episode I’ve watched so far that I found I barely remember it’s this one. I’d basically forgotten most of the guest characters existed, only vaguely remembering the lady ninja assassins and had to take a second at the beginning to get over my confusion because the only crusader plot I remember is Carter and I know he’s not until s2.
But I did vaguely remember the Guy gets Marian a horse plot, just not which episode it was in. If I’d thought about it I would have concluded it happened in the episode after the last one, as they were fighting at the start of it, but that’s not real helpful in determining what else was in the episode aside from Marian being susceptible to horses.
I’m in a weird place with Robin this episode, because his interactions with Much don’t come off too badly, far more like he knows Much can deal with this situation and then teasing that’s not too far removed from flirting at the end. But on the other hand, he’s a dick to everyone else. His behavior is just shy of being exactly what it was in 1x08, except there it was framed as a negative trait and here no one calls him on it. He thinks he’s so much better than the rest of the gang, I think he respects Vasey more than he does most of his friends and he hates Vasey. Also, for future reference they totally do bow to people, just as long as it’s their rulers, but Djaq isn’t supposed to bow to one of hers.
This might have been salvaged if somewhere along the line Robin had said that seeing Harold threw him off his game as it reminds him of what they saw in the crusade. I vaguely remember a conversation like that between him and Much that must be the Carter episode since it wasn’t here.
And his treatment of Marian deserves its own point. In 1x06 Marian’s big speech to Robin was about how she wanted someone to ask how they could support her with what she had to deal with. She does not want to marry Guy, she’s trapped in this situation, but Robin doesn’t ask how he can help her deal with it, even what I think is maybe supposed to be teasing is just mean. He can’t be there for her exactly as they live in different worlds, but he could still be more, or at all, supportive of her. He’s not an exceptionally huge dick to her, but it’s adding up to more of why I don’t like the character.
Being reminded of this episode I still don’t find it all that engaging with things to talk about. Somewhere along the line they also appear to have just become character thoughts where I barely even bother about little things like Will being an adorable nerd at the beginning.
Robin Hood 1x11
I’ve always kind of wished this episode was better than it was, because I can’ help feeling it should be. John’s a character who fades into the background most of the time, but when he’s in focus he’s a character who brings something very different to the rest of the gang, and even that’s sort of lost after this episode since his family connection is sent off.
Though I am glad they ended the Alice story this way as opposed to drawing it out; I wish John had maybe called back to it, but revisiting it would have just felt tacked on, and giving it any kind of happy ending wouldn’t have worked. As opposed to say Much/Eve a couple episodes ago, this does not feel like an unfished story, just one with an ending that can’t satisfy everyone because it started long ago and they can’t go back.
I’m going to say something shocking, I liked both Robin and Robin/Marian in this episode. Well, as much as I ever like either of those things, but I don’t actually have anything to object to (except that Robin does seem to be flirting with Vasey more and more). Robin’s still a little smug but it’s at a level that’s more necessary confidence when trying to juggle so many things going on than asshole smug.
I’d forgotten most of the plot resolution and I thought it was shaping up to be a situation where the plot would contrive a way for Robin to accomplish everything and it would feel cheap, but having them take care of the robbery part in the castle helped a lot. They never really made it seem like there would be a choice that had to be made and then the plot fairy allows it not be an issue; so I can even deal with the total success the gang has here. And since it was paired with the not so happy ending in John’s plot it kept working for me.
There’s no real Much abuse here, although I don’t think Robin would have played that joke on Djaq alone, and Djaq is a little less the patient with him, but nothing egregious.
Thwacky arrow seems to be around to stay, though probably as soon as I say that it’ll glitch again.
Largely because there’s no real Guy development here I running out of things to say again.
Robin Hood 1x12
I had considered going into it if I would reviews these episodes together or separately, but this needs some things said. Mainly that: oh there’s the asshole Robin I hate so much.
I’ve said a couple times that I thought I may be able to handle s1 Robin and it wasn’t until s2 that the old hatred would come back, but in the back of my mind I was pretty sure I hated him by the end of s1. But I’d been liking him a lot more overall this round so I thought he might actually hang on a little longer; but no, this was a very stark reminder of how I feel about him for most of the rest of the series if memory serves.
A lot of it’s his treatment of Marian, because he is an asshole to Marian basically all episode (I will say this much, the scene where he’s talking to her after she “dies” is actually well acted). If I’m being generous I’d say in his head it’s about his feelings toward Guy and it just makes him act like an asshole; but what it comes off as is condescension, possessiveness, disrespect, a lack of compassion towards a woman he supposedly loves, and driving her into a mission that almost gets her killed (or for the moment appears to have gotten her killed). What I almost liked about them last episode was that they were firstly a team and a little flirtatious about it secondarily. But that issue I brought up the episode before, the one that had been brewing for a few episodes until I put words to it; yeah that moderate annoyance suddenly became a monstrous thing that it took this long between rewatches for me to give anything about it another chance, and yeah still hateful.
Not helping Robin out is the fact that he’s also an idiot when it comes to Pitt. Guy is too much of an idiot to have made this plan on his own, and Vasey’s too smart to leave this guy alive unless he’s loyal to the mission. This could have worked, him being so blinded by what he wants to be true that he misses the obvious in front of, him that doesn’t excuse writing that the rest of the gang doesn’t even consider it. It could have even worked in with Will and Allan’s uncertainty about going back to the gang if Robin is so certain he’s being dismissive of others’ concerns on the subject he’s helping to drive his friends away just as his behavior *should* be driving Marian away. As is it just seems stupid that he doesn’t even consider ulterior motives in the guy, to the point where this is the guy he goes to for help with Marian (since no one else contributes to that choice at that point at least it doesn’t feel like his stupidity is cloaking everyone else’s brains under that dumbness, just dooming them with it).
But enough about Robin, time to discuss Guy. First, I really wish s1 Guy/Marian had been written more like s2 G/M because in s2 we’re shown that she thinks Guy has qualities, and whether or not she wants to be with him she doesn’t hate him and she wants him to be the better man; and that she can play on him to make him act like the better man to the point where it’s not clear how much he’s “acting” the better man. Them in s1 is not nearly that layered, she doesn’t want to marry him, she’s being forced into it, she can think of worse fates in life but if she’s stirred by him at all it’s not very much. It’s part of what makes Robin seem like such an ass, she’s making a choice on par with him running off to live in the forest, a life that’s far from the one she wants but which is the best she can do with the options before her. You want to point out the s2 Marian that she’s not being completely honest about her reasons, you’re still an ass for lecturing her on what she should be doing, but you’re also right that she’s got feelings she doesn’t know quite what to do with.
And Guy seems to be all over the map in this one, some of it by design but I’m not sure all of it works. For one, the birds in the opening scene are deliberately given symbolism (when text points at symbolism even I can see it) and we’ve seen Vasey crush birds before but Guy stands there apparently terrified of holding the bird too tightly and it ends up escaping when his attention is distracted. The latter part is probably the point of making it symbolic, but I don’t want to ignore the former, because he stands there like the gentle giant we’ve barely started to realize he is at this point; like he doesn’t realize he is at heart right now. Look, I suck at seeing symbolism (a conversation I’m pretty sure I had with an English teacher at some point: “This character’s room is decorated with red, what does that symbolize?” “That they like the color red, maybe? Or they’re visiting someone so that person liked red?”), so I know not to put a ton of stock in my reading of it even when it’s pointed out, but I see what I see.
Guy’s interactions with Marian (outside the NWM costume) are kind of adorable to me, though just a little bit; adorable idiot Guy hasn’t quite taken shape yet, but this is a big step towards it. He has no idea how to go about...anything with Marian, and he’s so excited about getting to marry her that he hasn’t even considered that if this was real (and it is as far as he knows, because adorable idiot, that we’re going to talk about a lot next time) he’s got other problems to consider.
His last big moment of the episode is during the robbery when he gets pretty terrible talking to Robin not knowing that Marian’s the one in the NWM gear. And it echoes of things he said back in 1x08 but in this episode feel a little out of place. Now that I talk about it I wonder if this is more symbolizing that Marian just gets hurt when the two of them snipe at each other because I don’t think that at this point (if it ever was) his desire for Marian is about getting one over on Robin. It’s a fringe benefit that he can rub it in Robin’s face, but I kind of don’t believe him anymore. Maybe I’m just starting to see more of s2 Guy in him here than I have so far (so...as Robin falls, Guy rises, should have seen that coming), so I feel like we’re closer to “Without her let my world turn to ash” that we are “I’ll laugh as I take her to the marriage bed,” though we actually aren’t.
Robin Hood 1x13
A lot of these points are going to be continuations from the last one, and they probably should be since these makes a two part story. To review, Robin continues to fall in my estimations, Guy is on the rise. Much is getting new levels of abuse, most of the gang gets little to do, and Marian is an idiot in dealing with Robin while dealing with confused feelings around Guy. All around, we are shaping up for the s2 I remember.
So this episode is basically Robin unchained. He starts the episode by killing everything he can shoot or stab at, proceeds to be an asshole to everyone around him; I’d say especially Marian but he is unforgivable to Much. And having noted that this season was not nearly the kind of Much abuse I remember, now I clearly remember why it’s such a thing I associate with the show. And while Edward tries to talk him down and a little bit points out how he’s in the wrong, and Marian does sort of try to nudge him away from being such a douche-nozzle, and Much tries to be the voice or reason; I still don’t feel like the episode views him as being the wrong and he certainly never has to apologize for anything he does here. I could handle Robin off the deep end in 1x08 because it was portrayed as mistakes and wrong, here it’s not exactly commended but it’s also not condemned. Episode needed to end on a fist bump rather than Robin learning anything.
He’s also an idiot for kissing Marian in front of the guards and otherwise flirting in front of everyone just after what happened with Guy, unless they figured they couldn’t make the situation any worse, but if that’s the case why is she staying in civilization instead of running to the forest to hide out? I remember thinking that had to bite them in the ass next season, but just because the writers pretend it wasn’t a huge deal doesn’t mean it wasn’t a stupid to do.
So angry Robin rant done, let’s talk Guy. I’m slow on the uptake some times because I remember it was at least two viewings in before I realized that the whole reason he shows up at Knighton is because he was going to call off the wedding or at least tell Marian the truth and give her the chance to delay. I’m sure he wasn’t going to let her out of the engagement or anything, but when he finds out that it’s a king decoy he clearly doesn’t intend to make her go through with it; likely without even considering the fact that telling her would probably throw off Vasey’s whole plan. It’s the fact that their cover story for her being out of sorts in that she’s super excited about the wedding that he concludes, ‘what the hell I guess she would want to go through with it so let’s just do it.’ Again, not exactly medal winning honor, but baby steps.
Last time I talked about why from Marian’s side I wish they’d been written more like s2 G/M all along, now it’s also true of Guy. I thought just last episode about how part of the reason they aren’t yet the s2 version is that Guy doesn’t want redemption at this stage, and yet this episode brings that into play. Part of the reason she can play him so well in s2 is that he wants to be saved from the darkness and sees her as his path to salvation; he wants to join her in the light. Both of these episodes have really acted like s2 episodes but we haven’t had the build up to see Marian seeing Guy with qualities or Guy wanting to be the better man that this story acts like both are already things.
Side note, “No Thornton, I have no family; well, except my sister, who’s married to a guy named Thornton, what a koinky-dink.”
Also I’ve often wondered what Marian’s plan was had the wedding happened. “Huh Marian, you seems to have a fresh injury here in just the place where I stabbed the Nightwatchman the other night. What a koinky-dink.”
The flip side of all my thoughts on how things here seem to presume a lot of s2 stuff already exists, is that then the finale of s2 pretends so much of it away. Which will be commented on there of course, but it crossed my mind here.
I apparently have a lot less to say here than I did in part 1, but all of it needed to be said.
Robin Hood 1x08
A lot of my usual checks regarding character seem a little out of place, because the framing of things here is so different. There’s a shameful level of Much abuse, but it’s framed as wrong; Robin’s an ass to Marian, but it’s framed as wrong; Robin acts incredibly superior and holier than thou to everyone, but it’s framed as wrong. I actually don’t dislike Robin in this one, as I’ve said before I can handle Robin the flawed man trying to be a hero, what I hate is Robin the sanctimonious asshole that the show frames as goodness and light.
I’m of two minds about the treatment of the Gang in general here. I hate that they apparently can’t do anything without Robin and therefore no one can later go ‘gotta ask, why are you leading us, asshole?’ but they are shown to be the ones with their heads on straight and able to see clearly. Robin needs them to keep on the right path as much as they need him to lead them as they do things.
I’m not sure if it’s good or terrible writing but Guy’s arguments don’t even go together much less seem thought out. One minute he against making peace with the Turk, the next he’s against Richard because he left to fight in the first place. *But* since the plan and goal are actually Vasey’s, Guy’s reasons for doing it aren’t going to make a lot of sense. It’s weird, because the performance is that of a true believer, but the lines don’t support that, the lines mean we have to pick and choose what he actually believes and what Vasey fed him to say, and what he’s just saying for the moment. And if I’m really willing to stretch my belief in the writers’ use of the flashback episode in s3, there’s a shade of Guy being angry with his dad for going off and fighting the holy land when he points out how useless it is to Robin.
I always knew Marian’s engagement ring this time looked cheap but in HD it looks *really* cheap. It’s probably still better than any of her rings from Robin if memory serves me.
The episode is really the first one that reshapes Marian’s thoughts on Guy. Up until now we’ve never really gotten any idea she would doubt Robin’s accusations at all. And yet here she really doesn’t seem to want to believe them (an attitude she will keep until almost her last episode). She still obviously doesn’t want to marry him and doesn’t think much of him, but she isn’t exactly inclined to side against him on everything just on Robin’s say so. It doesn’t help that Robin is off his rocker here and she’s also protecting him from himself, but while I’m not sure if she’s stirred by Guy exactly, we’re given reason to wonder if maybe on some level she is.
Wow, for an episode I really like and has lot of relevance to things I care about, I can think of shockingly little to say.
Robin Hood 1x09
While I still think this episode title better fit the themes of the Tom episode, it’s still a factor here so I don’t exactly object.
While there is some Much abuse in this one, most of it comes off as friendly ribbing especially between Robin and Much, and I don’t expect say Allan to have to be as good to Much as I think Robin should be. Also meta wise, Much/Eve is one of the big unfinished story points of the series which is a kind of Much abuse. While my heart belongs to Robin being Much’s great love, I think he deserved a follow up story with Eve, although unless it was going to be Much’s send off (and as he would never leave Robin that’s unlikely until at least post series and even then his loyalty to Robin probably extends beyond death) I’m not sure what different they could bring to it from where they left it here.
This episode is actually a pretty decent Robin episode in spite of him not really being the focus. Aside from a little by-proxy dickishness to Much (which actually Marian is maybe a bit less kind about it than Robin would have been, but I’ve always kind of gotten the feeling the two of them didn’t exactly get along except for Robin’s sake so her having to be their go-between wasn’t really on her wish list), a less-than-average-but-still-there level of dickishness to Marian, and a level of hate for Guy that grates on me but after last ep is probably understandable for him, Robin’s not bad this episode. Really if we’d carried on with the Robin of much of s1 I’d probably remember him a lot more fondly; on the other hand if we’d continued with the Guy of much of s1 I’d likely remember the show as a whole less fondly, so you win some you lose some.
So, about Guy then...loads to unpack here. This is kind of our first glimmer of the chance that there are better angels of Guy’s nature. This is our first time seeing the Vasey-Guy-Marian situation as a battle for Guy’s soul, that both Vasey and Marian can pull him towards their side with the right words and proper arm touching. And I wonder if looking back, Marian started seeing it that way at this point too. She’d have a long way to go to pull him back to the light, but if she could find the way she could at least pull him out of total darkness. But Vasey’s grip is strong and the experienced one at this point, but damn that scene where he talks Guy around is super uncomfortable to watch, not because Guy at present was poised to come very far around, but because we know this kind seduction to the dark side has been happening for years, we see in that conversation the continuing corruption of a man who was maybe never quite good, but didn’t have to be bad.
My reviews appear to be getting shorter, more hit the high points and move on...for now.
Robin Hood 1x10
I have to confess if there’s one episode I’ve watched so far that I found I barely remember it’s this one. I’d basically forgotten most of the guest characters existed, only vaguely remembering the lady ninja assassins and had to take a second at the beginning to get over my confusion because the only crusader plot I remember is Carter and I know he’s not until s2.
But I did vaguely remember the Guy gets Marian a horse plot, just not which episode it was in. If I’d thought about it I would have concluded it happened in the episode after the last one, as they were fighting at the start of it, but that’s not real helpful in determining what else was in the episode aside from Marian being susceptible to horses.
I’m in a weird place with Robin this episode, because his interactions with Much don’t come off too badly, far more like he knows Much can deal with this situation and then teasing that’s not too far removed from flirting at the end. But on the other hand, he’s a dick to everyone else. His behavior is just shy of being exactly what it was in 1x08, except there it was framed as a negative trait and here no one calls him on it. He thinks he’s so much better than the rest of the gang, I think he respects Vasey more than he does most of his friends and he hates Vasey. Also, for future reference they totally do bow to people, just as long as it’s their rulers, but Djaq isn’t supposed to bow to one of hers.
This might have been salvaged if somewhere along the line Robin had said that seeing Harold threw him off his game as it reminds him of what they saw in the crusade. I vaguely remember a conversation like that between him and Much that must be the Carter episode since it wasn’t here.
And his treatment of Marian deserves its own point. In 1x06 Marian’s big speech to Robin was about how she wanted someone to ask how they could support her with what she had to deal with. She does not want to marry Guy, she’s trapped in this situation, but Robin doesn’t ask how he can help her deal with it, even what I think is maybe supposed to be teasing is just mean. He can’t be there for her exactly as they live in different worlds, but he could still be more, or at all, supportive of her. He’s not an exceptionally huge dick to her, but it’s adding up to more of why I don’t like the character.
Being reminded of this episode I still don’t find it all that engaging with things to talk about. Somewhere along the line they also appear to have just become character thoughts where I barely even bother about little things like Will being an adorable nerd at the beginning.
Robin Hood 1x11
I’ve always kind of wished this episode was better than it was, because I can’ help feeling it should be. John’s a character who fades into the background most of the time, but when he’s in focus he’s a character who brings something very different to the rest of the gang, and even that’s sort of lost after this episode since his family connection is sent off.
Though I am glad they ended the Alice story this way as opposed to drawing it out; I wish John had maybe called back to it, but revisiting it would have just felt tacked on, and giving it any kind of happy ending wouldn’t have worked. As opposed to say Much/Eve a couple episodes ago, this does not feel like an unfished story, just one with an ending that can’t satisfy everyone because it started long ago and they can’t go back.
I’m going to say something shocking, I liked both Robin and Robin/Marian in this episode. Well, as much as I ever like either of those things, but I don’t actually have anything to object to (except that Robin does seem to be flirting with Vasey more and more). Robin’s still a little smug but it’s at a level that’s more necessary confidence when trying to juggle so many things going on than asshole smug.
I’d forgotten most of the plot resolution and I thought it was shaping up to be a situation where the plot would contrive a way for Robin to accomplish everything and it would feel cheap, but having them take care of the robbery part in the castle helped a lot. They never really made it seem like there would be a choice that had to be made and then the plot fairy allows it not be an issue; so I can even deal with the total success the gang has here. And since it was paired with the not so happy ending in John’s plot it kept working for me.
There’s no real Much abuse here, although I don’t think Robin would have played that joke on Djaq alone, and Djaq is a little less the patient with him, but nothing egregious.
Thwacky arrow seems to be around to stay, though probably as soon as I say that it’ll glitch again.
Largely because there’s no real Guy development here I running out of things to say again.
Robin Hood 1x12
I had considered going into it if I would reviews these episodes together or separately, but this needs some things said. Mainly that: oh there’s the asshole Robin I hate so much.
I’ve said a couple times that I thought I may be able to handle s1 Robin and it wasn’t until s2 that the old hatred would come back, but in the back of my mind I was pretty sure I hated him by the end of s1. But I’d been liking him a lot more overall this round so I thought he might actually hang on a little longer; but no, this was a very stark reminder of how I feel about him for most of the rest of the series if memory serves.
A lot of it’s his treatment of Marian, because he is an asshole to Marian basically all episode (I will say this much, the scene where he’s talking to her after she “dies” is actually well acted). If I’m being generous I’d say in his head it’s about his feelings toward Guy and it just makes him act like an asshole; but what it comes off as is condescension, possessiveness, disrespect, a lack of compassion towards a woman he supposedly loves, and driving her into a mission that almost gets her killed (or for the moment appears to have gotten her killed). What I almost liked about them last episode was that they were firstly a team and a little flirtatious about it secondarily. But that issue I brought up the episode before, the one that had been brewing for a few episodes until I put words to it; yeah that moderate annoyance suddenly became a monstrous thing that it took this long between rewatches for me to give anything about it another chance, and yeah still hateful.
Not helping Robin out is the fact that he’s also an idiot when it comes to Pitt. Guy is too much of an idiot to have made this plan on his own, and Vasey’s too smart to leave this guy alive unless he’s loyal to the mission. This could have worked, him being so blinded by what he wants to be true that he misses the obvious in front of, him that doesn’t excuse writing that the rest of the gang doesn’t even consider it. It could have even worked in with Will and Allan’s uncertainty about going back to the gang if Robin is so certain he’s being dismissive of others’ concerns on the subject he’s helping to drive his friends away just as his behavior *should* be driving Marian away. As is it just seems stupid that he doesn’t even consider ulterior motives in the guy, to the point where this is the guy he goes to for help with Marian (since no one else contributes to that choice at that point at least it doesn’t feel like his stupidity is cloaking everyone else’s brains under that dumbness, just dooming them with it).
But enough about Robin, time to discuss Guy. First, I really wish s1 Guy/Marian had been written more like s2 G/M because in s2 we’re shown that she thinks Guy has qualities, and whether or not she wants to be with him she doesn’t hate him and she wants him to be the better man; and that she can play on him to make him act like the better man to the point where it’s not clear how much he’s “acting” the better man. Them in s1 is not nearly that layered, she doesn’t want to marry him, she’s being forced into it, she can think of worse fates in life but if she’s stirred by him at all it’s not very much. It’s part of what makes Robin seem like such an ass, she’s making a choice on par with him running off to live in the forest, a life that’s far from the one she wants but which is the best she can do with the options before her. You want to point out the s2 Marian that she’s not being completely honest about her reasons, you’re still an ass for lecturing her on what she should be doing, but you’re also right that she’s got feelings she doesn’t know quite what to do with.
And Guy seems to be all over the map in this one, some of it by design but I’m not sure all of it works. For one, the birds in the opening scene are deliberately given symbolism (when text points at symbolism even I can see it) and we’ve seen Vasey crush birds before but Guy stands there apparently terrified of holding the bird too tightly and it ends up escaping when his attention is distracted. The latter part is probably the point of making it symbolic, but I don’t want to ignore the former, because he stands there like the gentle giant we’ve barely started to realize he is at this point; like he doesn’t realize he is at heart right now. Look, I suck at seeing symbolism (a conversation I’m pretty sure I had with an English teacher at some point: “This character’s room is decorated with red, what does that symbolize?” “That they like the color red, maybe? Or they’re visiting someone so that person liked red?”), so I know not to put a ton of stock in my reading of it even when it’s pointed out, but I see what I see.
Guy’s interactions with Marian (outside the NWM costume) are kind of adorable to me, though just a little bit; adorable idiot Guy hasn’t quite taken shape yet, but this is a big step towards it. He has no idea how to go about...anything with Marian, and he’s so excited about getting to marry her that he hasn’t even considered that if this was real (and it is as far as he knows, because adorable idiot, that we’re going to talk about a lot next time) he’s got other problems to consider.
His last big moment of the episode is during the robbery when he gets pretty terrible talking to Robin not knowing that Marian’s the one in the NWM gear. And it echoes of things he said back in 1x08 but in this episode feel a little out of place. Now that I talk about it I wonder if this is more symbolizing that Marian just gets hurt when the two of them snipe at each other because I don’t think that at this point (if it ever was) his desire for Marian is about getting one over on Robin. It’s a fringe benefit that he can rub it in Robin’s face, but I kind of don’t believe him anymore. Maybe I’m just starting to see more of s2 Guy in him here than I have so far (so...as Robin falls, Guy rises, should have seen that coming), so I feel like we’re closer to “Without her let my world turn to ash” that we are “I’ll laugh as I take her to the marriage bed,” though we actually aren’t.
Robin Hood 1x13
A lot of these points are going to be continuations from the last one, and they probably should be since these makes a two part story. To review, Robin continues to fall in my estimations, Guy is on the rise. Much is getting new levels of abuse, most of the gang gets little to do, and Marian is an idiot in dealing with Robin while dealing with confused feelings around Guy. All around, we are shaping up for the s2 I remember.
So this episode is basically Robin unchained. He starts the episode by killing everything he can shoot or stab at, proceeds to be an asshole to everyone around him; I’d say especially Marian but he is unforgivable to Much. And having noted that this season was not nearly the kind of Much abuse I remember, now I clearly remember why it’s such a thing I associate with the show. And while Edward tries to talk him down and a little bit points out how he’s in the wrong, and Marian does sort of try to nudge him away from being such a douche-nozzle, and Much tries to be the voice or reason; I still don’t feel like the episode views him as being the wrong and he certainly never has to apologize for anything he does here. I could handle Robin off the deep end in 1x08 because it was portrayed as mistakes and wrong, here it’s not exactly commended but it’s also not condemned. Episode needed to end on a fist bump rather than Robin learning anything.
He’s also an idiot for kissing Marian in front of the guards and otherwise flirting in front of everyone just after what happened with Guy, unless they figured they couldn’t make the situation any worse, but if that’s the case why is she staying in civilization instead of running to the forest to hide out? I remember thinking that had to bite them in the ass next season, but just because the writers pretend it wasn’t a huge deal doesn’t mean it wasn’t a stupid to do.
So angry Robin rant done, let’s talk Guy. I’m slow on the uptake some times because I remember it was at least two viewings in before I realized that the whole reason he shows up at Knighton is because he was going to call off the wedding or at least tell Marian the truth and give her the chance to delay. I’m sure he wasn’t going to let her out of the engagement or anything, but when he finds out that it’s a king decoy he clearly doesn’t intend to make her go through with it; likely without even considering the fact that telling her would probably throw off Vasey’s whole plan. It’s the fact that their cover story for her being out of sorts in that she’s super excited about the wedding that he concludes, ‘what the hell I guess she would want to go through with it so let’s just do it.’ Again, not exactly medal winning honor, but baby steps.
Last time I talked about why from Marian’s side I wish they’d been written more like s2 G/M all along, now it’s also true of Guy. I thought just last episode about how part of the reason they aren’t yet the s2 version is that Guy doesn’t want redemption at this stage, and yet this episode brings that into play. Part of the reason she can play him so well in s2 is that he wants to be saved from the darkness and sees her as his path to salvation; he wants to join her in the light. Both of these episodes have really acted like s2 episodes but we haven’t had the build up to see Marian seeing Guy with qualities or Guy wanting to be the better man that this story acts like both are already things.
Side note, “No Thornton, I have no family; well, except my sister, who’s married to a guy named Thornton, what a koinky-dink.”
Also I’ve often wondered what Marian’s plan was had the wedding happened. “Huh Marian, you seems to have a fresh injury here in just the place where I stabbed the Nightwatchman the other night. What a koinky-dink.”
The flip side of all my thoughts on how things here seem to presume a lot of s2 stuff already exists, is that then the finale of s2 pretends so much of it away. Which will be commented on there of course, but it crossed my mind here.
I apparently have a lot less to say here than I did in part 1, but all of it needed to be said.
