More Robin Hood
Oct. 28th, 2016 11:47 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jedi_of_urthRobin Hood 1x05
Thwacky arrow sticks around, good.
While there is some narrative Much abuse, the characters aren’t being jerks to him by and large so I’m less inclined to complain (for this episode).
I’ve always in many ways considered this to be the beginning of RH stage 2; the first two eps feel like they’re own thing with eps 3&4 existing in this sort of grey area where they weren’t part of the initial pitch but ideas hadn’t really developed yet. But starting here things start to feel like they’re on the familiar path; not exactly the final form obviously, but being shaped into the right molds.
Djaq is a big part of that. Roy wasn’t a bad character if they were doing a more traditional outlaw merry men set up, but a team of heroes needs variety and Djaq is that in spades being a female non-English Muslim who serves as the group’s healer and all around sciency one (Will’s the engineer but Djaq’s the scientist).
I actually feel like this episode did a better job with the team they the eps so far have. Everybody gets a moment or two at least; it may not be much in terms of character development and for many of the characters (I’m looking at you John) there never really will be much character development, but at least there’s moments.
While I’m still not disliking Robin here, he’s definitely taken a step closer to the version I dislike so much down the line. He’s pretty insufferable and smug here, but I get the feeling he knows that at this point; he’s a child acting out because he can’t go play at the fair; and he does seem to think he has all the answers during the adventure of the week, but he is able to adapt and shows himself to be thinking it through as he goes.
Except on one thing...why is shutting down the mine considered a good thing? I suspect a ton of people in that village made their living on mining and now they can’t. And if the Sheriff and Guy can’t make money in mining they’re going to have to come around taking it from people who now have less because the mine has been closed. If the Outlaws are waging a guerrilla or terrorist campaign to take down the infrastructure in Nottingham and through that drive the people at the top out, okay then; but they’re not, they’re trying keep people fed and healthy and safe from unjust laws so I don’t see how shutting down the mine is a victory for them. And yes, if they were squarely looking at a case of the mine’s going to be worked by slave labor so it’s not benefitting anyone and in fact harming people through said slavery then they actually accomplished something; but no way would the Sheriff let the mine just sit there for very long, so just keep them from bringing in slaves and soon people would be back to work. Granted that doesn’t do anything for safety conditions, but I remain unconvinced that burning the mine down is the best case scenario.
Another reason this episode feels like a huge shift towards the most familiar form of the show is Guy and the Guy/Marian stuff. Guy suddenly seems to have gotten a bit dumber or maybe just more visibly so, and I don’t mean because he can’t tell the Nightwatchman is a woman (people in the episode suck at seeing anyone is female), I mean in his relationship with Vasey. While the stuff up to now was in keeping with the way their relation forms going forward, before now I would have called them a leader and his ambitious but loyal lieutenant, where from here it’s more overtly abusive. I may read a lot of things into the dynamic in 1x03, but that’s because of things that come later which caused a backstory I put on it. In the pilot Guy was a little disappointed that Vasey didn’t completely have his back, but it didn’t feel personal like it starts to seem here. Here it becomes a lot more clear that Guy isn’t an independent agent, he’s Vasey’s attack dog and who takes the abuse for whatever goes wrong.
Guy’s one streak of independence is Marian. Vasey does not want Guy running around with women because they’re a distraction (which could be a reaction to Annie last time I suppose), probably especially someone like Marian who’s defiant and independent and at least mildly rebellious; all qualities that are the last things Guy is allowed.
Robin Hood 1x06
This is an episode I kind of wish I could remember how I felt about it first time around, because so much of it is based around the doubles crosses that I wonder if something has been lost to me in the intervening years since I remember them. Admittedly double crossing the gang is set up, and the abbess seems a little coincidental, so I don’t think it ever surprised me exactly, but since I wasn’t as keen on it as I remember being in times past I have to wonder at why.
It wasn’t until the end that I realized how little they did with Djaq this time, I’m not really complaining as it makes sense in character, but I noted it.
No real Much abuse either, if anything he and Robin are doing pretty well this time out.
I’m never felt Marian’s plot was very well done. It has good scenes, her ones with Guy and even her one with Robin (I feel like the ones with Edward are well acted but not exactly well handled, although I did like the last one), but I’ve never quite understood how Marian decided joining a convent was a way out to give her more freedom. Admittedly her pitch to the (fake) mother superior was about coming to live with them for a while rather than becoming a nun, but if Marian wants freedom a convent is hardly the place for it. It would be running away from her present problems but it wouldn’t provide freedom. At least not to someone like Marian, who already has a lot more freedom that most women of her time; she’s provided for, not in a hurtful situation (at least not at home), she’s educated, remaining unmarried does not seem to be a problem for her, all the reasons why women of the time would seem to better their situation in the church. But when Marian says she wants freedom she just wants to be able to do whatever she wants, and she’s definitely not going to get that.
Plus she clearly hadn’t planned anything out very well, it certainly comes across as if she’s throwing a childish tantrum over not getting her way. She’s obviously lying and trying to cover when she says she gave it a lot of thought, we saw her throw up her arms and make her decision and are given no indication that it’s an idea she’s been kicking around for a while if things got too hot. I love Marian, I love a lot of things attached to this plot (her talk with Robin just another nail in why I do not ship them, which I like up until the show does a 180 and decides that I really should after laying out so many reasons why I shouldn’t), but she does not come off well in it.
Also considering the next episode, this deal with Edward didn’t do a ton of good for her.
Fairly subtly handled in the episode, but important to me is Guy’s behavior in the main plot. Not that I’m not interesting in his action in the Marian subplot, but I don’t feel a ton of need to discuss his awkward courting this time. Like I said last time we’re seeing more separation between Guy and Vasey as the writers figure out the characters more and Vasey dismissed the abbess and the church and religion and God entirely; but we start seeing (I think it comes up again but I couldn’t swear to my memory) that Guy doesn’t dismiss any of it. It’s not a more powerful force in his life than Vasey, but Vasey can’t kill it either. I’m not any good at really incorporating religion into my own writing and I always felt like I should have done/do more with it in FT because I always felt it should be important here, but I often feel it remains an afterthought.
As for Robin check, he’s okay I guess, keeping him mostly away from Marian and not actively mistreating Much does wonders for my opinion of the character. He’s not doing as much to be a deep character as he was at first, but he’s still in the okay range.
Robin Hood 1x07
This episode is still pretty good as I remember; a lot of character stuff, a pretty good plot, some overall plot progression, it’s pretty good. But I would like to raise an issue with the directing, it seems to think extreme close ups convey intensity or menace , and maybe to some extent that’s true, but mostly I just don’t like it.
Much abuse may be at an all time low here, just one more thing to like about it.
But my good will towards early Robin is fading fast, and that’s with it being somewhat salvaged by taking the time out the do these recaps, I remember that when I watch these back to back for several episodes I find him pretty unbearable here. Especially since right now I’ve decided to read a lot more time between episodes than I think was necessarily intended by the writers, it helps make his behavior towards Marian a little less dumb if it’s been a month or more since last episode. But he pretty much treats her like shit all episode and then him and his manpain get the closing fade out.
Part of the issue with that is this episode isn’t really about Robin. It’s about family and politics neither of which is Robin’s area (also I always think this episode is the one called ‘A Thing or Two About Loyalty’ because that should have been what it was called). Allan and Tom are our A plot with Guy and Marian in a very substantial B plot; they’re interconnected but only through the necklace, whose movements Robin facilitates but it still isn’t about him; and yet Robin keeps trying to make it all about him and it’s pretty unlikable.
I do like that Djaq sneaks in some character development in all this, that’s nice, puts her one up on most of the gang that she can manage some character development in episodes that aren’t about her. The only other one who really manages it is Much, and so much of his characterization involves Robin that it just kind of happens.
But since I’m me, we’re not really going to talk much more about the A plot, because I’m her for the B plot. First off, Robin may be falling fast in my estimation, but Guy has barely started to rise, we’re seeing more that he has stuff going on under the surface mean-guy-in-black look, but not by a ton and not a lot to hang one’s hat on.
I’m actually going to start with the end, because I’ve never 100% made up my mind if he’s seizing this opportunity to force Marian’s hand or if he’s really terrified of Vasey’s reprisal and is grasping for any way to protect her after he made this mess. I’ve probably never made up my mind because it’s a little of column A and a little of column B. I’m not willing to go entirely or even mostly with the former because the situation has clearly just broken his brain and breaking Guy’s brain does not leave him with room to connive a way at getting Marian’s hand. Plus, he’s quite right about Vasey’s reaction and they both know it I’m sure. Still, he is far from unhappy with the fact that the situation forced her hand whether or not he set out to do it.
Plus in my version of history he’s been wanting to belt Edward one for a while.
Also, couldn’t Marian have just said that Robin did stop her in the forest but he was willing to just take her necklace and leave her alone? I can’t imagine the Gang makes a habit of harming single women on the road but they probably get robbed sometimes. She could have said she was embarrassed to tell Guy she’d lost the necklace. It wouldn’t have covered the staged robbery intel issue, and it might not have completely fooled Guy once his blood was up over possible betrayals, but it would have been at least half true. The other reason is that then suddenly finding it wouldn’t have cleared anything up, so it wouldn’t have worked script-wise.
I probably could say more but that covers the big issues and I’m ready to move on.
Thwacky arrow sticks around, good.
While there is some narrative Much abuse, the characters aren’t being jerks to him by and large so I’m less inclined to complain (for this episode).
I’ve always in many ways considered this to be the beginning of RH stage 2; the first two eps feel like they’re own thing with eps 3&4 existing in this sort of grey area where they weren’t part of the initial pitch but ideas hadn’t really developed yet. But starting here things start to feel like they’re on the familiar path; not exactly the final form obviously, but being shaped into the right molds.
Djaq is a big part of that. Roy wasn’t a bad character if they were doing a more traditional outlaw merry men set up, but a team of heroes needs variety and Djaq is that in spades being a female non-English Muslim who serves as the group’s healer and all around sciency one (Will’s the engineer but Djaq’s the scientist).
I actually feel like this episode did a better job with the team they the eps so far have. Everybody gets a moment or two at least; it may not be much in terms of character development and for many of the characters (I’m looking at you John) there never really will be much character development, but at least there’s moments.
While I’m still not disliking Robin here, he’s definitely taken a step closer to the version I dislike so much down the line. He’s pretty insufferable and smug here, but I get the feeling he knows that at this point; he’s a child acting out because he can’t go play at the fair; and he does seem to think he has all the answers during the adventure of the week, but he is able to adapt and shows himself to be thinking it through as he goes.
Except on one thing...why is shutting down the mine considered a good thing? I suspect a ton of people in that village made their living on mining and now they can’t. And if the Sheriff and Guy can’t make money in mining they’re going to have to come around taking it from people who now have less because the mine has been closed. If the Outlaws are waging a guerrilla or terrorist campaign to take down the infrastructure in Nottingham and through that drive the people at the top out, okay then; but they’re not, they’re trying keep people fed and healthy and safe from unjust laws so I don’t see how shutting down the mine is a victory for them. And yes, if they were squarely looking at a case of the mine’s going to be worked by slave labor so it’s not benefitting anyone and in fact harming people through said slavery then they actually accomplished something; but no way would the Sheriff let the mine just sit there for very long, so just keep them from bringing in slaves and soon people would be back to work. Granted that doesn’t do anything for safety conditions, but I remain unconvinced that burning the mine down is the best case scenario.
Another reason this episode feels like a huge shift towards the most familiar form of the show is Guy and the Guy/Marian stuff. Guy suddenly seems to have gotten a bit dumber or maybe just more visibly so, and I don’t mean because he can’t tell the Nightwatchman is a woman (people in the episode suck at seeing anyone is female), I mean in his relationship with Vasey. While the stuff up to now was in keeping with the way their relation forms going forward, before now I would have called them a leader and his ambitious but loyal lieutenant, where from here it’s more overtly abusive. I may read a lot of things into the dynamic in 1x03, but that’s because of things that come later which caused a backstory I put on it. In the pilot Guy was a little disappointed that Vasey didn’t completely have his back, but it didn’t feel personal like it starts to seem here. Here it becomes a lot more clear that Guy isn’t an independent agent, he’s Vasey’s attack dog and who takes the abuse for whatever goes wrong.
Guy’s one streak of independence is Marian. Vasey does not want Guy running around with women because they’re a distraction (which could be a reaction to Annie last time I suppose), probably especially someone like Marian who’s defiant and independent and at least mildly rebellious; all qualities that are the last things Guy is allowed.
Robin Hood 1x06
This is an episode I kind of wish I could remember how I felt about it first time around, because so much of it is based around the doubles crosses that I wonder if something has been lost to me in the intervening years since I remember them. Admittedly double crossing the gang is set up, and the abbess seems a little coincidental, so I don’t think it ever surprised me exactly, but since I wasn’t as keen on it as I remember being in times past I have to wonder at why.
It wasn’t until the end that I realized how little they did with Djaq this time, I’m not really complaining as it makes sense in character, but I noted it.
No real Much abuse either, if anything he and Robin are doing pretty well this time out.
I’m never felt Marian’s plot was very well done. It has good scenes, her ones with Guy and even her one with Robin (I feel like the ones with Edward are well acted but not exactly well handled, although I did like the last one), but I’ve never quite understood how Marian decided joining a convent was a way out to give her more freedom. Admittedly her pitch to the (fake) mother superior was about coming to live with them for a while rather than becoming a nun, but if Marian wants freedom a convent is hardly the place for it. It would be running away from her present problems but it wouldn’t provide freedom. At least not to someone like Marian, who already has a lot more freedom that most women of her time; she’s provided for, not in a hurtful situation (at least not at home), she’s educated, remaining unmarried does not seem to be a problem for her, all the reasons why women of the time would seem to better their situation in the church. But when Marian says she wants freedom she just wants to be able to do whatever she wants, and she’s definitely not going to get that.
Plus she clearly hadn’t planned anything out very well, it certainly comes across as if she’s throwing a childish tantrum over not getting her way. She’s obviously lying and trying to cover when she says she gave it a lot of thought, we saw her throw up her arms and make her decision and are given no indication that it’s an idea she’s been kicking around for a while if things got too hot. I love Marian, I love a lot of things attached to this plot (her talk with Robin just another nail in why I do not ship them, which I like up until the show does a 180 and decides that I really should after laying out so many reasons why I shouldn’t), but she does not come off well in it.
Also considering the next episode, this deal with Edward didn’t do a ton of good for her.
Fairly subtly handled in the episode, but important to me is Guy’s behavior in the main plot. Not that I’m not interesting in his action in the Marian subplot, but I don’t feel a ton of need to discuss his awkward courting this time. Like I said last time we’re seeing more separation between Guy and Vasey as the writers figure out the characters more and Vasey dismissed the abbess and the church and religion and God entirely; but we start seeing (I think it comes up again but I couldn’t swear to my memory) that Guy doesn’t dismiss any of it. It’s not a more powerful force in his life than Vasey, but Vasey can’t kill it either. I’m not any good at really incorporating religion into my own writing and I always felt like I should have done/do more with it in FT because I always felt it should be important here, but I often feel it remains an afterthought.
As for Robin check, he’s okay I guess, keeping him mostly away from Marian and not actively mistreating Much does wonders for my opinion of the character. He’s not doing as much to be a deep character as he was at first, but he’s still in the okay range.
Robin Hood 1x07
This episode is still pretty good as I remember; a lot of character stuff, a pretty good plot, some overall plot progression, it’s pretty good. But I would like to raise an issue with the directing, it seems to think extreme close ups convey intensity or menace , and maybe to some extent that’s true, but mostly I just don’t like it.
Much abuse may be at an all time low here, just one more thing to like about it.
But my good will towards early Robin is fading fast, and that’s with it being somewhat salvaged by taking the time out the do these recaps, I remember that when I watch these back to back for several episodes I find him pretty unbearable here. Especially since right now I’ve decided to read a lot more time between episodes than I think was necessarily intended by the writers, it helps make his behavior towards Marian a little less dumb if it’s been a month or more since last episode. But he pretty much treats her like shit all episode and then him and his manpain get the closing fade out.
Part of the issue with that is this episode isn’t really about Robin. It’s about family and politics neither of which is Robin’s area (also I always think this episode is the one called ‘A Thing or Two About Loyalty’ because that should have been what it was called). Allan and Tom are our A plot with Guy and Marian in a very substantial B plot; they’re interconnected but only through the necklace, whose movements Robin facilitates but it still isn’t about him; and yet Robin keeps trying to make it all about him and it’s pretty unlikable.
I do like that Djaq sneaks in some character development in all this, that’s nice, puts her one up on most of the gang that she can manage some character development in episodes that aren’t about her. The only other one who really manages it is Much, and so much of his characterization involves Robin that it just kind of happens.
But since I’m me, we’re not really going to talk much more about the A plot, because I’m her for the B plot. First off, Robin may be falling fast in my estimation, but Guy has barely started to rise, we’re seeing more that he has stuff going on under the surface mean-guy-in-black look, but not by a ton and not a lot to hang one’s hat on.
I’m actually going to start with the end, because I’ve never 100% made up my mind if he’s seizing this opportunity to force Marian’s hand or if he’s really terrified of Vasey’s reprisal and is grasping for any way to protect her after he made this mess. I’ve probably never made up my mind because it’s a little of column A and a little of column B. I’m not willing to go entirely or even mostly with the former because the situation has clearly just broken his brain and breaking Guy’s brain does not leave him with room to connive a way at getting Marian’s hand. Plus, he’s quite right about Vasey’s reaction and they both know it I’m sure. Still, he is far from unhappy with the fact that the situation forced her hand whether or not he set out to do it.
Plus in my version of history he’s been wanting to belt Edward one for a while.
Also, couldn’t Marian have just said that Robin did stop her in the forest but he was willing to just take her necklace and leave her alone? I can’t imagine the Gang makes a habit of harming single women on the road but they probably get robbed sometimes. She could have said she was embarrassed to tell Guy she’d lost the necklace. It wouldn’t have covered the staged robbery intel issue, and it might not have completely fooled Guy once his blood was up over possible betrayals, but it would have been at least half true. The other reason is that then suddenly finding it wouldn’t have cleared anything up, so it wouldn’t have worked script-wise.
I probably could say more but that covers the big issues and I’m ready to move on.
