B5rewatch: Deathwalker
Jul. 6th, 2015 09:32 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jedi_of_urthHope everyone had a good Fourth of July (whether it was a holiday for you or not), I wasn’t able to get anything out during it, but now a review of an episode that...well this isn’t a bad episode exactly, it’s just not one I’ve ever really enjoyed
1x09: Deathwalker
So that’s an incredibly spoilery promo, I think it had just about every major plot twist in it, including the ending. Sure, some of the context is missing, but I think they just compressed the episode to a thirty second synopsis. Well, I guess it leaves out the B-plot with Kosh and Talia, if that plot matter much to you. It is a fairly engaging trailer, but spoiler content means I have to give it low marks.
And one very random note, I think this is the only disk out of the whole series collection (probably Crusade too) that doesn’t include any JMS episodes. There’s a couple other runs of four non-JMS episodes, in the back half of this season and early in s2, but they don’t happen to fall in such a way to be a disk of other writers. Probably not coincidentally, this is one of my least favorite disk collections of episodes (it includes Believes that I really don’t like, Deathwalker and Survivors which I’m not overly fond of, and By Any Means Necessary which I think is pretty okay but not great); although the next disk is mainly given a big lift by S&P, other than that it’s not much better.
So, while admitting I’ve never seen any kind of violent knife attack happen in real life, I kind of feel like the extras’ reaction here aren’t right. They’re standing around like this is a fight in the high school cafeteria (at least without anyone chanting ‘fight’ because they’re extras and don’t talk) rather than potential murder happening right in front of them. But then maybe it wouldn’t be that different a reaction, I really have no frame to comment.
Let’s see, the Dilgar War was about 30 years ago so yeah that would have been after the end of Centauri occupation of Narn, so the Narn could have been their own agents in that war rather than being caught up in Centauri issues. Might been their proper entry into galactic affairs too, much as it was for the humans. The timeline holds up with Na’Toth’s age too, she was probably a kid or the equivalent of a teenager but she could have been alive to have seen what happened to her grandfather and had it impressed on her from a young age the need for family vengeance.
I doubt I’m going to have much to say on the B-plot through this episode, in my opinion it really drags the story down and aside from a few good Kosh lines doesn’t really contribute much to the series. I find Abbot annoying (and I’m really not sure where to put the blame for it), Talia bland, and Kosh borderline OOC (but to be fair, Kosh must be able to say more than a few words at a time at some points, we just don’t see them very much, after all he and Delenn are making pretty complex plans for his usually seen level of communication).
How would Franklin not recognize a Dilgar? His father would surely have not let such a thing stand. And I’d think the main characters’ generation (especially since Jeff, Michael, and Stephan’s fathers all fought in the Dilgar War) would have grown up knowing plenty about that war.
I actually want to give credit to DiTillio’s writing for not making it completely coincidental that Na’Toth would have run into Deathwalker. There’s a reason she was in the docking bay, and a decent enough reason Jha’dur would have been arriving about the same time as the representative she was supposed to meet with. It’s all playing within the rules of the show quite well enough that nothing needs to much stretch to be believable. So well played there.
...Only, on further thought, I may have to retract that. I tend to forget what Deathwalker’s scheme was, and she was supposedly on her way to make deals with Earth not the Narn. Now, I can still do the mental work to explain the timing with Na’Toth (the Narn got word of when Jha’dur would arrive and made plans to intercept her), but it actually requires the work to explain rather than being evident in the text.
Okay, I do have something to say about the B-plot, Talia is being annoying. I can allow that she’s probably frustrated being asked to continuously scan a guy who she can’t read anything from and even minimal contact with Kosh is going to grate on her nerves I suspect; but, lady, don’t assume that just because you don’t understand the words means they’re not speaking a language that makes sense to the two of them (they may or may not be since the real point of this is Talia herself, but clearly she doesn’t know that). Say you don’t see what good you could be doing, that I can support; say that you don’t understand what he wants from your presence there, sure; say you don’t understand what he’s saying when he talks to you so you don’t know when these hours are; but if you’re going to work here on B5 with all the languages, you need to be a little more open minded about how people talk to each other.
I have to question why Lennier has to have such obvious exposition dialog about Deathwalker when we’ve already had the same exposition from the humans? If you’re not going to make a case about the Minbari having a different view of events then why does it happen this way? Aside from maybe to mask his obvious exposition dialog about the Minbari clans. I am capable of noticing both though. Also, why would Sinclair bring up that Jha’dur talked about the Minbari but not bother mentioning that she’s wearing Minbari clothes and arrived on a Minbari ship; clearly she’s had dealings with the Minbari.
I suspect I will need a rant at the end over whether I think it works in this universe to have the younger races already working towards immortality, but for right now I have to point out that if Jha’dur found it and whoever works on it next isn’t starting from scratch then they will probably find it. Not only are the characters doing more re-expositing about what the anti-agapic is and does but I’m not sure any of the human leads can carry to ball for making a moral case for letting her get back to work on the serum. Especially since Franklin’s “it could take years” argument seems really unhelpful to the case. Now I kind of wish Delenn was here to make the case for maybe Jha’dur is sorry for what she did and wishes to make amends, that could have been an interesting angle to explore (and doesn’t Susan’s ‘tyrants rarely show remorse for what they’ve done’ seem a little ironic considering the past and future actions of many of her best friends?).
Need some joke about Sharks (since the Abbai are fish people) and Jets (since Sinclair’s a fighter pilot)...but I can’t think of one. I’m not really much of a comedian. The League are gonna beat on Jeff tonight...
Isn’t it a little weird that everyone is getting so worked up over the Dilgar War but Lennier and Sinclair just have a casual conversation about the Earth-Minbari War? While to the League the Dilgar War might have been the last major conflict and it does seem it was a pretty nasty conflict, to the Humans and Minbari theirs is the war the casts a shadow over their present interactions.
Damn are the Drazi ships going to look better later. But I can allow some fanwank-fu that says these are a different class of Vree ship to what we see later on.
I’ve never been a big Talia fan, but doing extra critical viewing seems to be making me like her less. The performance just isn’t good and I don’t think the writing is the primary problem (may not be the best, but I think this is on Thompson), her performance is just too weak; maybe Talia is supposed to be a little unsure and lacking the specific kind of confidence most of the rest of the characters have, but it just comes across as weak and helpless and annoying.
On the flip side, in universe, wouldn’t there be a little bit of an upset over the Vorlon ambassador using an Earth citizen this way? It may not be something for the military to get involved in, but I feel like there would be some rules about whether you can record a person like that without telling them that was part of the deal (regardless of who’s doing it); although it may get brushed aside as it would mean arguing with the Vorlons...I guess I’ll have to go with that.
So let’s get the less random thoughts out of the way. The writing in this episode is pretty hit or miss, often within the same scenes. Some things work and others don’t, and there were definitely some wording choices that jumped out at me as not quite right. It’s not helped by the fact that the performances are also kind of uneven, and not just because Talia kind of sucks; nobody is bad exactly, but there is an awkwardness that peeks through occasionally. When even I’m ragging on the CGI you know it’s not a good showing. I’m not sure if my issues with Talia here are strictly acting or on the direction (and they are somewhat on the writing but like I said, I don’t think it’s the biggest factor), and must be at least somewhat directing for letting the performance stand like that. It’s just not a great episode; again, it’s not bad exactly, but not all that good either. If you ignore my issues with Talia (who, as stated all along, I’ve never really invested in or cared about), nobody’s characterization bothers me and no one feels OOC (except maybe talkative Kosh, but I sort of allow it). I don’t even dislike the episode, it’s not one I care for that much.
Okay, now on to some closing theorizing. For one, making the Dilgar a dead race and never really giving us much insight into them feels kind of weird in this verse. I know a lot of cultures and often races die off in the Shadow War, but (by not being known at all) they’re not treated after the fact as just being monsters. It seems entirely possible that the Dilgar were no worse than the Centauri; and then the Non-Aligned Worlds and Earth (and maybe the Narn too) are all effectively the Narn in that comparison, who feel justified having no sympathy for those that made war on them and killed so many. And we don’t know that much about the Dilgar War, because it isn’t important to the story of B5 the way the EMW or the Narn Occupation was; but within the B5 universe it seems weird to leave them as monsters and not even know why or how.
However, I kind of think the Vorlons may have been involved with the extinction level event of the Dilgar (and then killed Jha’dur to finish the job). Because if you listen to Deathwalker’s dialog in places, there’s a lot of Shadow style talk in it; and if the Dilgar had the level of technology and the cultural will it must have taken to be the kind of threat they were, I could see the Vorlons stepping in and making sure the Shadows never had a chance to recruit them. And just on a practical level, I question how it just so happened that within a few years of the Dilgar being confined to their home planet (gee, aren’t we glad the League never put that kind of punishment on the Centauri or the Humans for their crimes) it just happened that their star went nova without some kind of warning.
And, as promised, a bit of a rant about having the younger races possibly already having immortality in their grasp. Sure, it’s not evolutionary immortality, or granted by the over-consciousness of the universe, but it seems to devalue the immortality card when a rogue scientist from a barely heard of (by us at least) race figured out how to do it. I was going to point out that if the Minbari don’t have it...only to realize that maybe they do and have culturally rejected the kind of immortality Jha’dur uncovered, but the research remains for Jha’dur to uncover while she was living with the Minbari. I just don’t feel like something that is only a few years of development away from being discovered by anyone smart and ruthless enough to go there should also be one of the grand designs of the series; unless the Vorlons are constantly stepping everywhere behind the scenes keeping the discoveries from being made, but then it’s a discovery that would probably be made within a generation of the First Ones peacing out so it just doesn’t work.
There are some places where this episode really works within the B5 universe, but on a grand scale I think maybe it doesn’t. Maybe that’s why it’s never been fantastic to me; the kind of half formed opinions that finally have some cause after doing super serious rewatch.
Next time: I don’t wanna. It’s freaking Believers...so stay tuned for ranting (or maybe just saying ‘I don’t wanna’ again and again)
1x09: Deathwalker
So that’s an incredibly spoilery promo, I think it had just about every major plot twist in it, including the ending. Sure, some of the context is missing, but I think they just compressed the episode to a thirty second synopsis. Well, I guess it leaves out the B-plot with Kosh and Talia, if that plot matter much to you. It is a fairly engaging trailer, but spoiler content means I have to give it low marks.
And one very random note, I think this is the only disk out of the whole series collection (probably Crusade too) that doesn’t include any JMS episodes. There’s a couple other runs of four non-JMS episodes, in the back half of this season and early in s2, but they don’t happen to fall in such a way to be a disk of other writers. Probably not coincidentally, this is one of my least favorite disk collections of episodes (it includes Believes that I really don’t like, Deathwalker and Survivors which I’m not overly fond of, and By Any Means Necessary which I think is pretty okay but not great); although the next disk is mainly given a big lift by S&P, other than that it’s not much better.
So, while admitting I’ve never seen any kind of violent knife attack happen in real life, I kind of feel like the extras’ reaction here aren’t right. They’re standing around like this is a fight in the high school cafeteria (at least without anyone chanting ‘fight’ because they’re extras and don’t talk) rather than potential murder happening right in front of them. But then maybe it wouldn’t be that different a reaction, I really have no frame to comment.
Let’s see, the Dilgar War was about 30 years ago so yeah that would have been after the end of Centauri occupation of Narn, so the Narn could have been their own agents in that war rather than being caught up in Centauri issues. Might been their proper entry into galactic affairs too, much as it was for the humans. The timeline holds up with Na’Toth’s age too, she was probably a kid or the equivalent of a teenager but she could have been alive to have seen what happened to her grandfather and had it impressed on her from a young age the need for family vengeance.
I doubt I’m going to have much to say on the B-plot through this episode, in my opinion it really drags the story down and aside from a few good Kosh lines doesn’t really contribute much to the series. I find Abbot annoying (and I’m really not sure where to put the blame for it), Talia bland, and Kosh borderline OOC (but to be fair, Kosh must be able to say more than a few words at a time at some points, we just don’t see them very much, after all he and Delenn are making pretty complex plans for his usually seen level of communication).
How would Franklin not recognize a Dilgar? His father would surely have not let such a thing stand. And I’d think the main characters’ generation (especially since Jeff, Michael, and Stephan’s fathers all fought in the Dilgar War) would have grown up knowing plenty about that war.
I actually want to give credit to DiTillio’s writing for not making it completely coincidental that Na’Toth would have run into Deathwalker. There’s a reason she was in the docking bay, and a decent enough reason Jha’dur would have been arriving about the same time as the representative she was supposed to meet with. It’s all playing within the rules of the show quite well enough that nothing needs to much stretch to be believable. So well played there.
...Only, on further thought, I may have to retract that. I tend to forget what Deathwalker’s scheme was, and she was supposedly on her way to make deals with Earth not the Narn. Now, I can still do the mental work to explain the timing with Na’Toth (the Narn got word of when Jha’dur would arrive and made plans to intercept her), but it actually requires the work to explain rather than being evident in the text.
Okay, I do have something to say about the B-plot, Talia is being annoying. I can allow that she’s probably frustrated being asked to continuously scan a guy who she can’t read anything from and even minimal contact with Kosh is going to grate on her nerves I suspect; but, lady, don’t assume that just because you don’t understand the words means they’re not speaking a language that makes sense to the two of them (they may or may not be since the real point of this is Talia herself, but clearly she doesn’t know that). Say you don’t see what good you could be doing, that I can support; say that you don’t understand what he wants from your presence there, sure; say you don’t understand what he’s saying when he talks to you so you don’t know when these hours are; but if you’re going to work here on B5 with all the languages, you need to be a little more open minded about how people talk to each other.
I have to question why Lennier has to have such obvious exposition dialog about Deathwalker when we’ve already had the same exposition from the humans? If you’re not going to make a case about the Minbari having a different view of events then why does it happen this way? Aside from maybe to mask his obvious exposition dialog about the Minbari clans. I am capable of noticing both though. Also, why would Sinclair bring up that Jha’dur talked about the Minbari but not bother mentioning that she’s wearing Minbari clothes and arrived on a Minbari ship; clearly she’s had dealings with the Minbari.
I suspect I will need a rant at the end over whether I think it works in this universe to have the younger races already working towards immortality, but for right now I have to point out that if Jha’dur found it and whoever works on it next isn’t starting from scratch then they will probably find it. Not only are the characters doing more re-expositing about what the anti-agapic is and does but I’m not sure any of the human leads can carry to ball for making a moral case for letting her get back to work on the serum. Especially since Franklin’s “it could take years” argument seems really unhelpful to the case. Now I kind of wish Delenn was here to make the case for maybe Jha’dur is sorry for what she did and wishes to make amends, that could have been an interesting angle to explore (and doesn’t Susan’s ‘tyrants rarely show remorse for what they’ve done’ seem a little ironic considering the past and future actions of many of her best friends?).
Need some joke about Sharks (since the Abbai are fish people) and Jets (since Sinclair’s a fighter pilot)...but I can’t think of one. I’m not really much of a comedian. The League are gonna beat on Jeff tonight...
Isn’t it a little weird that everyone is getting so worked up over the Dilgar War but Lennier and Sinclair just have a casual conversation about the Earth-Minbari War? While to the League the Dilgar War might have been the last major conflict and it does seem it was a pretty nasty conflict, to the Humans and Minbari theirs is the war the casts a shadow over their present interactions.
Damn are the Drazi ships going to look better later. But I can allow some fanwank-fu that says these are a different class of Vree ship to what we see later on.
I’ve never been a big Talia fan, but doing extra critical viewing seems to be making me like her less. The performance just isn’t good and I don’t think the writing is the primary problem (may not be the best, but I think this is on Thompson), her performance is just too weak; maybe Talia is supposed to be a little unsure and lacking the specific kind of confidence most of the rest of the characters have, but it just comes across as weak and helpless and annoying.
On the flip side, in universe, wouldn’t there be a little bit of an upset over the Vorlon ambassador using an Earth citizen this way? It may not be something for the military to get involved in, but I feel like there would be some rules about whether you can record a person like that without telling them that was part of the deal (regardless of who’s doing it); although it may get brushed aside as it would mean arguing with the Vorlons...I guess I’ll have to go with that.
So let’s get the less random thoughts out of the way. The writing in this episode is pretty hit or miss, often within the same scenes. Some things work and others don’t, and there were definitely some wording choices that jumped out at me as not quite right. It’s not helped by the fact that the performances are also kind of uneven, and not just because Talia kind of sucks; nobody is bad exactly, but there is an awkwardness that peeks through occasionally. When even I’m ragging on the CGI you know it’s not a good showing. I’m not sure if my issues with Talia here are strictly acting or on the direction (and they are somewhat on the writing but like I said, I don’t think it’s the biggest factor), and must be at least somewhat directing for letting the performance stand like that. It’s just not a great episode; again, it’s not bad exactly, but not all that good either. If you ignore my issues with Talia (who, as stated all along, I’ve never really invested in or cared about), nobody’s characterization bothers me and no one feels OOC (except maybe talkative Kosh, but I sort of allow it). I don’t even dislike the episode, it’s not one I care for that much.
Okay, now on to some closing theorizing. For one, making the Dilgar a dead race and never really giving us much insight into them feels kind of weird in this verse. I know a lot of cultures and often races die off in the Shadow War, but (by not being known at all) they’re not treated after the fact as just being monsters. It seems entirely possible that the Dilgar were no worse than the Centauri; and then the Non-Aligned Worlds and Earth (and maybe the Narn too) are all effectively the Narn in that comparison, who feel justified having no sympathy for those that made war on them and killed so many. And we don’t know that much about the Dilgar War, because it isn’t important to the story of B5 the way the EMW or the Narn Occupation was; but within the B5 universe it seems weird to leave them as monsters and not even know why or how.
However, I kind of think the Vorlons may have been involved with the extinction level event of the Dilgar (and then killed Jha’dur to finish the job). Because if you listen to Deathwalker’s dialog in places, there’s a lot of Shadow style talk in it; and if the Dilgar had the level of technology and the cultural will it must have taken to be the kind of threat they were, I could see the Vorlons stepping in and making sure the Shadows never had a chance to recruit them. And just on a practical level, I question how it just so happened that within a few years of the Dilgar being confined to their home planet (gee, aren’t we glad the League never put that kind of punishment on the Centauri or the Humans for their crimes) it just happened that their star went nova without some kind of warning.
And, as promised, a bit of a rant about having the younger races possibly already having immortality in their grasp. Sure, it’s not evolutionary immortality, or granted by the over-consciousness of the universe, but it seems to devalue the immortality card when a rogue scientist from a barely heard of (by us at least) race figured out how to do it. I was going to point out that if the Minbari don’t have it...only to realize that maybe they do and have culturally rejected the kind of immortality Jha’dur uncovered, but the research remains for Jha’dur to uncover while she was living with the Minbari. I just don’t feel like something that is only a few years of development away from being discovered by anyone smart and ruthless enough to go there should also be one of the grand designs of the series; unless the Vorlons are constantly stepping everywhere behind the scenes keeping the discoveries from being made, but then it’s a discovery that would probably be made within a generation of the First Ones peacing out so it just doesn’t work.
There are some places where this episode really works within the B5 universe, but on a grand scale I think maybe it doesn’t. Maybe that’s why it’s never been fantastic to me; the kind of half formed opinions that finally have some cause after doing super serious rewatch.
Next time: I don’t wanna. It’s freaking Believers...so stay tuned for ranting (or maybe just saying ‘I don’t wanna’ again and again)
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Date: 2015-07-28 10:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-07-29 04:10 am (UTC)