Still more JE thinking
Aug. 20th, 2008 06:49 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jedi_of_urthI still have a couple of specific things about Journey's End that I can't get out of my head, and they tie into the larger things from the show I'm still trying to resolve.
1. Death
Obviously Caan wasn't always telling the truth with his prophesies, or at least not the whole truth otherwise he wouldn't have been able to play Davros so well, but he seemed pretty well stuck on the death of the Doctor's most faithful companion. He even told Ten I before he left that "One will still die."
Here's the thing, as yet, no one has died. Donna lost her memories, but the point of that was that she didn't die. Okay she's no longer the person who was the Doctor's most faithful companion, if one chooses to see the description pointing to her, but I can't make it all fit, not only because I don't see the "most faithful companion" description as exactly accurate, best mate sure, Sarah Jane as was. I maybe could buy Caan saw a future where the Doctor didn't take her memories or further into the future where she got them back and burned up because of it, but like I said, not fitting for me.
However, and here's where this ties into my issues with the end, I think it did remind Ten I that whatever impossibilities Rose had overcome to get back, it brought up his "wither and die" issues again. With the possible exception of Jack all of his faithful companions will eventually die, and Rose's death is one of the things he fears above anything I think; so between fearing that the prophesy was about her and even if it wasn't eventually he'd lose her fed into his actions at the end.
I tend to underplay how much the "wither and die" aspect effects the Doctor to myself. Maybe because he's so able to live in the moment for anything besides opening himself up to the woman he loves but will eventually lose. Maybe because I just don't find it relatable because Doctor, everyone has to deal with the possibility that someone they love will die before them and some people take the chance *knowing* it would happen. Maybe because I shipped Buffy/Giles which had a lot of mutual reasons to fear the other might die before them more than someone who access to the medical advancements of ALL TIME he could find in order to make it work. Maybe because I think I always thought he'd kind of been dealing with it by inches all along and had accepted to a fair extent.
But, if Ten II is going to make an issue of it I guess it must still be lurking around more than I'd given it credit for. So I can't fanwank it into Ten I's actions regarding Rose at the end I suppose, and if I wrap Dalek Caan into I guess I find it a bit easier.
2. The Doctor's soul shall be revealed
Ten I (and probably Ten II if he'd been there for it) is an idiot for taking this to mean the way he made his companions capable of making the hard choices and sacrifices for the good of the universe. Well, at least seeing that as a bad thing, because that is part of his soul he brings to the people around him, Rose told us back in season 1, it's a better way of living your life, about making a stand, not just letting things happen, saying no. Better than being a lovelorn face in the crowd or a con man, or even the best temp in Chiswick; they've all found out how to make that stand.
But really from the moment we had Ten II and that prophesy available (and right now I can't be arsed to go and look which came first) I figured Ten II was a way to see into the Doctor's soul, for him to see it from the outside. It's sci-fi, these things happen.
Then, just about the first thing Ten II showed him was that he's still a killer, that once he might have chosen 'coward' it's quite possible that a few things being different he's back into 'killer' area. I firmly believe that had Ten I been out there instead he would have done just the same thing, and although he may want to deny it, he does see that from the outside through Ten II.
But if there's one thing the Doctor in any body knows about his soul these days it's that he loves Rose Tyler, which Ten II proves to Ten I during the beach scene (mark II). So, as angry as he was over seeing the still a killer aspect, he knows that his soul in any form but free from the Time Lord pressures would do...well pretty much what Ten II does, instantly jump at the idea of spending a lifetime with Rose.
So the Doctor's soul was revealed to him by seeing himself in the mirror, but for Ten I it isn't real happy going forward, he's learned that he's still the Destroyer of Worlds and that Rose is the love of his life. He doesn't want to be the first, and going forward with his Time Lord life would be easier if the second wasn't true, if he didn't already know it it's pretty hard to escape again (if he ever did).
So, long, rambly, and probably not as sensical as one would like, but there are some thoughts that I'm trying to fit into my JE acceptance, but to see if they work would require rewatching and I'm just not up to that yet.
1. Death
Obviously Caan wasn't always telling the truth with his prophesies, or at least not the whole truth otherwise he wouldn't have been able to play Davros so well, but he seemed pretty well stuck on the death of the Doctor's most faithful companion. He even told Ten I before he left that "One will still die."
Here's the thing, as yet, no one has died. Donna lost her memories, but the point of that was that she didn't die. Okay she's no longer the person who was the Doctor's most faithful companion, if one chooses to see the description pointing to her, but I can't make it all fit, not only because I don't see the "most faithful companion" description as exactly accurate, best mate sure, Sarah Jane as was. I maybe could buy Caan saw a future where the Doctor didn't take her memories or further into the future where she got them back and burned up because of it, but like I said, not fitting for me.
However, and here's where this ties into my issues with the end, I think it did remind Ten I that whatever impossibilities Rose had overcome to get back, it brought up his "wither and die" issues again. With the possible exception of Jack all of his faithful companions will eventually die, and Rose's death is one of the things he fears above anything I think; so between fearing that the prophesy was about her and even if it wasn't eventually he'd lose her fed into his actions at the end.
I tend to underplay how much the "wither and die" aspect effects the Doctor to myself. Maybe because he's so able to live in the moment for anything besides opening himself up to the woman he loves but will eventually lose. Maybe because I just don't find it relatable because Doctor, everyone has to deal with the possibility that someone they love will die before them and some people take the chance *knowing* it would happen. Maybe because I shipped Buffy/Giles which had a lot of mutual reasons to fear the other might die before them more than someone who access to the medical advancements of ALL TIME he could find in order to make it work. Maybe because I think I always thought he'd kind of been dealing with it by inches all along and had accepted to a fair extent.
But, if Ten II is going to make an issue of it I guess it must still be lurking around more than I'd given it credit for. So I can't fanwank it into Ten I's actions regarding Rose at the end I suppose, and if I wrap Dalek Caan into I guess I find it a bit easier.
2. The Doctor's soul shall be revealed
Ten I (and probably Ten II if he'd been there for it) is an idiot for taking this to mean the way he made his companions capable of making the hard choices and sacrifices for the good of the universe. Well, at least seeing that as a bad thing, because that is part of his soul he brings to the people around him, Rose told us back in season 1, it's a better way of living your life, about making a stand, not just letting things happen, saying no. Better than being a lovelorn face in the crowd or a con man, or even the best temp in Chiswick; they've all found out how to make that stand.
But really from the moment we had Ten II and that prophesy available (and right now I can't be arsed to go and look which came first) I figured Ten II was a way to see into the Doctor's soul, for him to see it from the outside. It's sci-fi, these things happen.
Then, just about the first thing Ten II showed him was that he's still a killer, that once he might have chosen 'coward' it's quite possible that a few things being different he's back into 'killer' area. I firmly believe that had Ten I been out there instead he would have done just the same thing, and although he may want to deny it, he does see that from the outside through Ten II.
But if there's one thing the Doctor in any body knows about his soul these days it's that he loves Rose Tyler, which Ten II proves to Ten I during the beach scene (mark II). So, as angry as he was over seeing the still a killer aspect, he knows that his soul in any form but free from the Time Lord pressures would do...well pretty much what Ten II does, instantly jump at the idea of spending a lifetime with Rose.
So the Doctor's soul was revealed to him by seeing himself in the mirror, but for Ten I it isn't real happy going forward, he's learned that he's still the Destroyer of Worlds and that Rose is the love of his life. He doesn't want to be the first, and going forward with his Time Lord life would be easier if the second wasn't true, if he didn't already know it it's pretty hard to escape again (if he ever did).
So, long, rambly, and probably not as sensical as one would like, but there are some thoughts that I'm trying to fit into my JE acceptance, but to see if they work would require rewatching and I'm just not up to that yet.
