More Robin Hood s2 (effectively the rest)
Nov. 4th, 2016 12:27 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jedi_of_urthWriting Robin Hood fanfic for NaNo means I’ve spent my time lately googling: Richard the Lionheart, Prince/King John, the Crusades, and Purgatory because I wasn’t sure when Christians came up with the idea (turns out, very relevant as it would have been a spreading concept during the characters’ lifetimes). I guess I have to compensate for the fact that this show makes me dumber in some way, although it is just making the show’s timeline more confusing ( rather, reminding me that it always was).
Robin Hood 2x06
This is probably tied for my second favorite episode, and it’s actually maybe a better episode than Treasure of the Nation, but the Guy-Marian-Allan plot in that one is so amazing that I can’t put it lower the second. Walkabout being my favorite, though I guess we’ll see how this ranking hold once I get to those episodes. This episode just has everything you could want in the RH episode and I love it to pieces.
Robin is not terrible here, but after me willing to let him be at least largely right last time, this time his treatment of Allan annoys me and Allan’s attitude seems a lot more sympathetic. I guess I have a tendency on this show to root for the underdogs given that Guy and Much are two of my favorite characters and Allan isn’t that far behind (I do love Marian, so she’s kind of the exception to that rule). I’ve also never been quite sure what TPTB were going for with the suicide bomber imagery in this one.
The end feels like the writers may have had a Much abuse quota they had to meet, but actually packing it in like that makes it a little less annoying. Much’s personality can be annoying, especially at rough moments, and the gang reacts to that; while I may not like it, it’s not unreasonable, it’s the pattern of mistreatment that’s hard to swallow.
Will is good with wood, never not worth noting. Though why couldn’t the gang’s band be called the Merry Men?
But I really want to talk about team castle, because oh my god so much going on there. Although first I should probably address something; I guess part of the problem I’ve always had with this plotline can at least partly be laid at the feet of being both modern and American; I immediately think ‘Well if this many lords really want to king out of power maybe this is a discussion we should have,’ which after this long delay in rewatches I can see how that’s not the way the characters would necessarily think. Yes the Black Knights are in it for a variety of reasons, some want power, some have legitimate grievances with what Richard has done, some out of fear, some just want to be on the winning side, whatever the reason. But this is a tricky grey area in how historical people thought, because on one hand divine right of kings and all that, but on the other political coups or upheavals happened fairly regularly, hell this royal family was at war with itself within the last few decades.
Anyway Allan’s moving into a new role and Gisborne’s man. A role the apparently requires him to watch as Guy changes out of his black shirt into a different black shirt for the sake of fangirls. Guy and Allan’s relationship is another fascinating thing, though maybe less so here than once they really get going. Back in the day I used to finding quite slashable, and I can still see why I and others did, but I’ve gotten less interested in just slash for the sake of slash over the years (and I was never as into it as others) so I doubt that’s going to be much of what I see this round. Mainly right now they’re off to an awkward start because Guy doesn’t exactly not-care about dealing with Allan (somewhat out of loyalty, somewhat because it amuses him to see Allan jump into the game like this), but it’s not the most important thing by a long shot.
Because he’s being torn in half by Marian and Vasey. It creates some of the most honest Guy/Marian moments we ever get, and some of the most naked manipulation on Vasey’s side. Vasey is both God and Devil in Guy’s world. There is nothing Guy has but by Vasey’s decree, and he knows, reinforced this episode, that his life belongs to Vasey continuing to find him useful. Vasey is the dark side and Guy knows that, and somewhere in what remains his soul he even cares about that fact, but he is all Guy has. Marian asks the question that she might have asked years ago, why Guy even works for Vasey; and Vasey provides the clearest answer of all when he brings Guy back under his control, Guy is weak and frightened and simple. Guy does not deal with complexities, he just happens to be the living embodiment of one.
Marian doesn’t see what happens between him and Vasey, and I’m not saying she should just forgive him turning on her; but with a little thought there’s in an obvious difference between the man who frantically told her to go and the who looks as broken as he is by not letting her leave. Again, he’s weak and broken and damaged in ways she’s rarely interested in understanding or healing; but there is the capacity for something else there if it had a helping hand.
This is the episode that shows just how capable he is of turning to another path if only it was as clear as the one he’s on. He’s trying to make the right choices with Marian this time, hoping to win her but not pushing her. He’s being much more open and honest with her, probably more than he should be on certain subjects. His first instinct is the choice that gives her freedom rather than binds her to Winchester (he also clearly doesn’t like it when other men look at Marian all creepy like), he probably knows Vasey will punish him for that, but until he has to stop and think about it he’s got the right idea, until Vasey gets his claws back in and makes their path again the clear one.
This is also the episode that so complicated Guy and Marian’s relationship for both of them; and ultimately puts them on the road that damns them both. She sees him better here, the capacity for better but also the weakness that keeps him where he is. And he has finally let his heart open up to her, after courting her openly for more than a year (their engagement party was on the king’s birthday, presumably last year) he’s finally realizing that it is more than desire, it’s something like love, and he doesn’t understand it or know what to do with it because he has the emotional understanding of a four year old and that may be an insult to four year olds. She has new ways to manipulate him even as I think she cares for him more than she’d like and certainly more than she’d like to admit; but still not quite understanding that this makes things even more dangerous. That a man finally opening his heart after so long denying it has no understanding of how to handle its complexities. And trying to manage that with Vasey around, he doesn’t want Guy to even have a heart.
Team castle is the best.
Robin Hood 2x07
Where to even start with this one, I guess we’ll follow the more or less standard format and start with team outlaw. There is very limited Much abuse and I am happy with that. The traps are ridiculous but that’s okay with me. And this episode is insane with how much it makes the no killing rule long gone.
I know the gang has been killing all season, but they kill a lot of people in this episode. They wipe out a cart of guards, Robin means to kill Allan, and then does kill the cardinal at the end. If I had more time I’d be tempted to see if Robin has killed more people than Guy this season. And them killing the guards got to me more when Robin shot up the money bags at the end and the only people around to grab for the money were guards; so apparently they deserve extra money but also to be killed for no other reason than serving their rightful lord (as far they have reason to know or care).
I feel much the way I did a couple episodes ago about Robin going after Allan; strategically it’s hard to argue that Allan is a threat to the gang’s continued interests, especially after their failed run at the camp would probably have Vasey “making Allan talk” about what he knows. But I also find myself being less forgiving of that choice than I was when Robin found out about Allan, because he seems to be looking for a reason; and even that could have been an interesting choice if the show had owned it, that Robin couldn’t forgive Allan for the betrayal and now that he’s killing again it affects every aspect of his life as he embraces being a killer. (Somehow, Robin is much more interesting when I act like he’s Guy...)
I won’t go so far as to say he’s a dick to Marian in this one, but he is selfish with her. She has never expressed a desire to live in the forest with them, and yet he keeps pushing and taking advantage of her situation after her father’s death; some of which he doesn’t even realize that I think has more to do with why she says yes, but he is taking advantage of her grief to convince her that suddenly she must want to go with him. I want her to punch him a few more times, I’d feel better for it.
Now back to team castle, that’s where the good stuff happens. Because the Vasey-Guy-Allan dynamic is so much fun, and there’s some big Guy/Marian stuff to talk about.
I get the feeling like Guy, in spite of himself, kind of respects Allan’s remaining loyalty to the gang and hasn’t pushed him to give up secrets he’s still protecting. Guy values real loyalty and so he’s willing to respect Allan’s at least for now. And yet, Vasey’s playing their repeated game again and building Allan up as a trusted aide that Guy will likely one day either have to kill or be killed by. Because I don’t buy that Vasey likes Allan quite as much as he pretends to in this episode, he’s using Allan to prove to Guy that there’s always someone else who could stand beside him; especially after Guy’s divided loyalties were revealed last time. Vasey likes that Allan is contributing and earning his keep (and Vasey’s quick to turn on him when that changes) but he also likes that Allan doesn’t seem to realize he’s a pawn in Vasey’s long game control over Guy; but then Vasey doesn’t realize that Allan’s actually playing for the other team in that game since his remaining loyalty to Robin makes him on Marian’s side, who’s the main one pulling Guy in the other direction.
Contrary to Guy’s proposal in s1 where I was willing to see that he was probably at least partly taking advantage of the situation to get her to agree to marry him, this seemed even more honestly fearful for her safety. I think even he knows it’s a terrible time to put all this on her, but he has no choice because everything is going to come to a head within like an hour so he has to get in there ahead of Vasey’s reprisal. And when she walks away from him his reaction reads so much more ‘Why did I do that?’ than anything against her. I don’t think she’s in any place to recognize that in that moment, but as a viewer it’s what I see. Although really, why did Edward leave the dagger behind in any case?
I also don’t see a ton of difference between Guy’s actions and Robin’s when it comes to her dealing with her father’s death. They’re both pushing her into something they both have good reason to think she doesn’t really want but they think is the best choice for her. The difference is Guy doesn’t see that she has other options, that she is going to need him to defend her, that the situation as he understands it makes him the much lesser of two evils. Robin has to see she has other choices, but he doesn’t consider that any of them could be better for her, because this is the best for him.
And I think she agrees to go for all the other reasons that have nothing to do with wanting to live in the woods with Robin. Guy is hovering again, and the situation is far more confusing than it used to be, which is not something she has the capacity to deal with right now. With Edward gone her life is going to be harder in the castle and that’s before you add in what Guy just said about her probably being suspected of involvement. If her choices for survival re getting out and agreeing to marry Guy again, she takes the former, but that doesn’t mean in a world of choices it’s what she would choose.
Robin Hood 2x08
So full record keeping in effect, I had to go cook dinner after this episode so the thoughts aren’t as fresh as usual. Also, I was a little surprised because I remember that Carter ends up dying but forgot it wasn’t until the finale (I remember because he was in Afterlife Theater, but this way I can actually think somehow he and Meg met in life too, it works for me).
My usual Robin check is going to be kind of short because I more or less nothing him this episode. There wasn’t as much Much abuse as my memory sort of thought happened, but I still feel like Much’s anger at Robin is mostly deserved though I’m not sure he really understands his own feelings, just knows that it’s upsetting. But I think it ties in with my point about Robin being good to strangers but not his friends; Carter doesn’t mean hardly anything to Robin so Robin can swoop in, have their meeting be meaningful and then have not mean anything later. He’s not good at showing the people who love him personally that he cares for them, and that’s what Much is responding too.
In Much’s eyes the exception to that is Marian, but he’s only half right. Robin is still bad with Marian now that they’re living together and having to interact regularly, instead of him running off to Nottingham, having a meaningful moment or two, and then running back to the forest. I mean, Robin effectively tells Marian to go make him a sandwich this episode, the only reason that’s not literally what he said was because the sandwich hadn’t been invented yet (not that that necessarily stops this show on other things). It’s John who actually goes to talk to Marian (and that scene is sweet) because Robin can’t actually deal with her up close and personal.
In some ways I guess I have a lot to say about Robin, but it’s really more about Marian. Because Robin isn’t 100% wrong that she’s not thinking clearly driven by grief and anger and she’d make mistakes she would later regret (like going to the forest in the first place) and they’re mistakes that put the gang in danger having to worry about protecting her from. But he doesn’t help her in any way, the same way Much complains Robin’s not a good friend to him. The part of Marian that at least a little bit wanted to come to the forest was because she wanted to be with Robin, and yet all she gets is the condescending leader Robin that orders rather than talks, that expects obedience and treats this as a military operation where he cannot be questioned. And that’s not the man she...even kind of loves; maybe Robin of Locksley and Marian of Knighton had a chance in a normal life, but they have no chance in the one they have.
Also not much remarked on, and not in the terms I think of it, is that grief turns Marian a little bit Guy, beating up prisoners is totally okay now by her. Now Maz, imagine a lifetime of tragedy and someone telling you that beating up prisoners was both okay and should make you feel better, and that’s the beginnings of what Guy has in his head from Vasey.
Allan and Marian’s relationship is particularly interesting this time around. This is his proving that he’s more loyal than Robin gave him credit for last time (also, apparently they don’t kill this episode, so they mainly kill friends now?), and Marian willing to letting him prove he deserved another chance.
Which brings up to Guy and Marian. Guy is doing so much brooding, and Vasey’s nettling just hurt in a way I can’t quite express. It’s just so...terrible. Guy has feelings you know, and they’re not the murderous kind so he doesn’t know what to do with them except brood.
But they’re actual scenes together, whoa so much there. Again we have the raw Guy who just lets it all out, his heart on his black leather sleeve. He has no idea how to express most of those feelings so they come out all the more raw and blunt, but he’s suddenly found himself so full of feelings after years of not having nearly so many feelings to deal with, and they’re all about her and the life he wants with her. Let’s be real, he’s a terrible choice in life partner, he’s the kind who gets angry and burns houses and has a possessive streak a mile wide, along with any number of attachment issues that make him unable to leave Vasey just as much as they bond him to Marian. But he lets her in, and she tells herself she only accepts it because it’s good for the cause, but she likes that his heart is so evidently hers. He’s just as stifling as Robin, but fighting with him in energy rather that exhaustion.
And that scene is really good for vidding, I remember that.
Robin Hood 2x09
This has never been an episode I had strong feelings about, or anything really new to say on. The only thing that needs commenting on, and it’s not a new comment, is how crap Robin’s proposal to Marian is, and that fact that I’m pretty sure she’s just running away from Robin in the end. Also this is the moment of truth, she can’t run back to the forest without making it clear she’s with Robin and being stuck with that life, and she doesn’t want that, so she goes back to the castle.
I still don’t think she actually likes Robin that much, and I don’t just mean Robin of the woods. I know that’s not the impression the show wants me to have, I’ve seen the end of the season, but she doesn’t seem to like him very much. She accepts his proposal in another impulsive act after Edward’s death, because Robin invokes that feeling. His terrible, horrible, proposal that she knows is awful. And then at the first opportunity she decides she doesn’t want to stay with her new fiancé, she’s going to go back to hang out with the other man she has on the hook, the she clearly wants to bone even if she doesn’t know how to handle any of her feelings for.
I do like Djaq in this episode. And it actually seemed a lot funnier than most of the episodes while still being funny for the ridiculous like usual. But for once I have a limited amount to say.
Besides, the next episode is Walkabout and I will have a world of things to say about that one I suspect.
Robin Hood 2x10
I love this episode, on reflection I’m not quite sure it’s as strong as I remember, but I still really like it.
John’s decent in the ranks seems to come out of nowhere, Robin continues to exist as a big ball of meh, and it might help if I ever understood what was so damned important about the pact. I get it’s important to Vasey and the Black Knights, both to keep it out of enemy hands and for proof of allegiance within the ranks, but what good does Robin even get out of it at this point?
I have thoughts on Much, but I can’t find words to discuss it that really make sense. Poor Much, although I’m not blaming Robin exactly, at least not in this specific episode, it’s more about the pattern of their lives and Robin’s behavior that has made Much feel like he’s losing his best friend/love of his life and can’t actually say it even though Much is the type who would normally speak his heart.
But all that’s beside the point, because is Guy of Gisborne’s finest hour. When I think of the Guy we might have had, of the man he might have been, this is how you know it’s a better life. I had a pretty steep escalation with Guy and Guy/Marian first time I watched this; I just never liked Robin for so long but sometime in the first half of s2, by ‘For England,’ I let myself really start seeing Guy, but it wasn’t until here, when his capacity to be the better man was fully established that I threw myself into the ring on his side, and that of G/M (I had appreciated the chemistry at times before but not exactly shipped it hard). Because he could have been a hero; and all that was required was a lack of Vasey.
It’s not Marian that makes him a better man, except for the last few steps that make great leaps. Mostly all he needs is the chance to find his own way and a light to follow. And if he can be that better man, he and Marian could do great things together.
Without Vasey he accepts that for some reason Marian can contact Robin without anger or hatred. Without Vasey, he can ask for help from a man he hates at only a reminder of how necessary it is. Without Vasey he makes sure the peasants that he by and large hates have as much protection as they can from the oncoming battle. Without Vasey to pull him away from Marian’s side he realizes he would rather die with her than live without her.
He doesn’t even realize that, without Vasey, he is a better man. He’s still only reacting to what’s going on around him, but he does it with the understanding that what is good for all is also good for him, even after he knows he’s going to survive. Yes it’s partly for Marian, and he certainly comes back for Marian, he’s not a particularly selfless hero even at his best, but he is not a bad man when he is his own man.
This is the Guy that makes the end of the season so terrible, and next season so very hard to watch, because we know he’s better than that, but he forgets that he is better than the hate and anger and (next season) crazy. And as much as the ‘let my world turn to ash’ line is amazing, it hurts, because he’s only a few episode from burning his world down and never really building it again, just the beginnings before it ends for good.
I like Allan in the episode too, he just wants to come home and he’s being rejected again. Welcomes to Guy’s world, Allan, it’s lonely and tragic, and you will escape it long before he does.
And Marian...I would probably have a lot more thoughts on Marian if my heart wasn’t all with Guy here. She has to see some of the good in him from this. I’m not saying she has to love him, I think they’d make an amazing couple but in character it’s not a matter of scoring brownie points to earn her love, and even if it was he’s far shy of the mark after the shit he’s pulled; but he’s not the villain here. Again, a little hard to watch knowing the end. Because her willfulness will be the death of her, and for all intents and purposes, of him to.
Robin Hood 2x11
Yeah I still love this episode, although as with the last couple, I’m finding that by this point in a marathon viewing I’m less inclined to talk about it that I was at first. This has accomplished its goal of bringing back my RH writing muses, I’ve got a few ideas in addition to continuing FT and all pretty epic; but I’m almost to the point of calling it quits on the reviews and just watching for a while (although I think s3 has more to do with getting in the right headspace to work on FT so I might want to take some notes.
Or maybe I just don’t want to write about the next couple episodes. Either way, next rewatch I’ll have to do more detailed reviews of the episodes I’m going to not bother with this time (starting with Lardiner I guess); for now I think just watching sounds better.
Robin Hood 2x06
This is probably tied for my second favorite episode, and it’s actually maybe a better episode than Treasure of the Nation, but the Guy-Marian-Allan plot in that one is so amazing that I can’t put it lower the second. Walkabout being my favorite, though I guess we’ll see how this ranking hold once I get to those episodes. This episode just has everything you could want in the RH episode and I love it to pieces.
Robin is not terrible here, but after me willing to let him be at least largely right last time, this time his treatment of Allan annoys me and Allan’s attitude seems a lot more sympathetic. I guess I have a tendency on this show to root for the underdogs given that Guy and Much are two of my favorite characters and Allan isn’t that far behind (I do love Marian, so she’s kind of the exception to that rule). I’ve also never been quite sure what TPTB were going for with the suicide bomber imagery in this one.
The end feels like the writers may have had a Much abuse quota they had to meet, but actually packing it in like that makes it a little less annoying. Much’s personality can be annoying, especially at rough moments, and the gang reacts to that; while I may not like it, it’s not unreasonable, it’s the pattern of mistreatment that’s hard to swallow.
Will is good with wood, never not worth noting. Though why couldn’t the gang’s band be called the Merry Men?
But I really want to talk about team castle, because oh my god so much going on there. Although first I should probably address something; I guess part of the problem I’ve always had with this plotline can at least partly be laid at the feet of being both modern and American; I immediately think ‘Well if this many lords really want to king out of power maybe this is a discussion we should have,’ which after this long delay in rewatches I can see how that’s not the way the characters would necessarily think. Yes the Black Knights are in it for a variety of reasons, some want power, some have legitimate grievances with what Richard has done, some out of fear, some just want to be on the winning side, whatever the reason. But this is a tricky grey area in how historical people thought, because on one hand divine right of kings and all that, but on the other political coups or upheavals happened fairly regularly, hell this royal family was at war with itself within the last few decades.
Anyway Allan’s moving into a new role and Gisborne’s man. A role the apparently requires him to watch as Guy changes out of his black shirt into a different black shirt for the sake of fangirls. Guy and Allan’s relationship is another fascinating thing, though maybe less so here than once they really get going. Back in the day I used to finding quite slashable, and I can still see why I and others did, but I’ve gotten less interested in just slash for the sake of slash over the years (and I was never as into it as others) so I doubt that’s going to be much of what I see this round. Mainly right now they’re off to an awkward start because Guy doesn’t exactly not-care about dealing with Allan (somewhat out of loyalty, somewhat because it amuses him to see Allan jump into the game like this), but it’s not the most important thing by a long shot.
Because he’s being torn in half by Marian and Vasey. It creates some of the most honest Guy/Marian moments we ever get, and some of the most naked manipulation on Vasey’s side. Vasey is both God and Devil in Guy’s world. There is nothing Guy has but by Vasey’s decree, and he knows, reinforced this episode, that his life belongs to Vasey continuing to find him useful. Vasey is the dark side and Guy knows that, and somewhere in what remains his soul he even cares about that fact, but he is all Guy has. Marian asks the question that she might have asked years ago, why Guy even works for Vasey; and Vasey provides the clearest answer of all when he brings Guy back under his control, Guy is weak and frightened and simple. Guy does not deal with complexities, he just happens to be the living embodiment of one.
Marian doesn’t see what happens between him and Vasey, and I’m not saying she should just forgive him turning on her; but with a little thought there’s in an obvious difference between the man who frantically told her to go and the who looks as broken as he is by not letting her leave. Again, he’s weak and broken and damaged in ways she’s rarely interested in understanding or healing; but there is the capacity for something else there if it had a helping hand.
This is the episode that shows just how capable he is of turning to another path if only it was as clear as the one he’s on. He’s trying to make the right choices with Marian this time, hoping to win her but not pushing her. He’s being much more open and honest with her, probably more than he should be on certain subjects. His first instinct is the choice that gives her freedom rather than binds her to Winchester (he also clearly doesn’t like it when other men look at Marian all creepy like), he probably knows Vasey will punish him for that, but until he has to stop and think about it he’s got the right idea, until Vasey gets his claws back in and makes their path again the clear one.
This is also the episode that so complicated Guy and Marian’s relationship for both of them; and ultimately puts them on the road that damns them both. She sees him better here, the capacity for better but also the weakness that keeps him where he is. And he has finally let his heart open up to her, after courting her openly for more than a year (their engagement party was on the king’s birthday, presumably last year) he’s finally realizing that it is more than desire, it’s something like love, and he doesn’t understand it or know what to do with it because he has the emotional understanding of a four year old and that may be an insult to four year olds. She has new ways to manipulate him even as I think she cares for him more than she’d like and certainly more than she’d like to admit; but still not quite understanding that this makes things even more dangerous. That a man finally opening his heart after so long denying it has no understanding of how to handle its complexities. And trying to manage that with Vasey around, he doesn’t want Guy to even have a heart.
Team castle is the best.
Robin Hood 2x07
Where to even start with this one, I guess we’ll follow the more or less standard format and start with team outlaw. There is very limited Much abuse and I am happy with that. The traps are ridiculous but that’s okay with me. And this episode is insane with how much it makes the no killing rule long gone.
I know the gang has been killing all season, but they kill a lot of people in this episode. They wipe out a cart of guards, Robin means to kill Allan, and then does kill the cardinal at the end. If I had more time I’d be tempted to see if Robin has killed more people than Guy this season. And them killing the guards got to me more when Robin shot up the money bags at the end and the only people around to grab for the money were guards; so apparently they deserve extra money but also to be killed for no other reason than serving their rightful lord (as far they have reason to know or care).
I feel much the way I did a couple episodes ago about Robin going after Allan; strategically it’s hard to argue that Allan is a threat to the gang’s continued interests, especially after their failed run at the camp would probably have Vasey “making Allan talk” about what he knows. But I also find myself being less forgiving of that choice than I was when Robin found out about Allan, because he seems to be looking for a reason; and even that could have been an interesting choice if the show had owned it, that Robin couldn’t forgive Allan for the betrayal and now that he’s killing again it affects every aspect of his life as he embraces being a killer. (Somehow, Robin is much more interesting when I act like he’s Guy...)
I won’t go so far as to say he’s a dick to Marian in this one, but he is selfish with her. She has never expressed a desire to live in the forest with them, and yet he keeps pushing and taking advantage of her situation after her father’s death; some of which he doesn’t even realize that I think has more to do with why she says yes, but he is taking advantage of her grief to convince her that suddenly she must want to go with him. I want her to punch him a few more times, I’d feel better for it.
Now back to team castle, that’s where the good stuff happens. Because the Vasey-Guy-Allan dynamic is so much fun, and there’s some big Guy/Marian stuff to talk about.
I get the feeling like Guy, in spite of himself, kind of respects Allan’s remaining loyalty to the gang and hasn’t pushed him to give up secrets he’s still protecting. Guy values real loyalty and so he’s willing to respect Allan’s at least for now. And yet, Vasey’s playing their repeated game again and building Allan up as a trusted aide that Guy will likely one day either have to kill or be killed by. Because I don’t buy that Vasey likes Allan quite as much as he pretends to in this episode, he’s using Allan to prove to Guy that there’s always someone else who could stand beside him; especially after Guy’s divided loyalties were revealed last time. Vasey likes that Allan is contributing and earning his keep (and Vasey’s quick to turn on him when that changes) but he also likes that Allan doesn’t seem to realize he’s a pawn in Vasey’s long game control over Guy; but then Vasey doesn’t realize that Allan’s actually playing for the other team in that game since his remaining loyalty to Robin makes him on Marian’s side, who’s the main one pulling Guy in the other direction.
Contrary to Guy’s proposal in s1 where I was willing to see that he was probably at least partly taking advantage of the situation to get her to agree to marry him, this seemed even more honestly fearful for her safety. I think even he knows it’s a terrible time to put all this on her, but he has no choice because everything is going to come to a head within like an hour so he has to get in there ahead of Vasey’s reprisal. And when she walks away from him his reaction reads so much more ‘Why did I do that?’ than anything against her. I don’t think she’s in any place to recognize that in that moment, but as a viewer it’s what I see. Although really, why did Edward leave the dagger behind in any case?
I also don’t see a ton of difference between Guy’s actions and Robin’s when it comes to her dealing with her father’s death. They’re both pushing her into something they both have good reason to think she doesn’t really want but they think is the best choice for her. The difference is Guy doesn’t see that she has other options, that she is going to need him to defend her, that the situation as he understands it makes him the much lesser of two evils. Robin has to see she has other choices, but he doesn’t consider that any of them could be better for her, because this is the best for him.
And I think she agrees to go for all the other reasons that have nothing to do with wanting to live in the woods with Robin. Guy is hovering again, and the situation is far more confusing than it used to be, which is not something she has the capacity to deal with right now. With Edward gone her life is going to be harder in the castle and that’s before you add in what Guy just said about her probably being suspected of involvement. If her choices for survival re getting out and agreeing to marry Guy again, she takes the former, but that doesn’t mean in a world of choices it’s what she would choose.
Robin Hood 2x08
So full record keeping in effect, I had to go cook dinner after this episode so the thoughts aren’t as fresh as usual. Also, I was a little surprised because I remember that Carter ends up dying but forgot it wasn’t until the finale (I remember because he was in Afterlife Theater, but this way I can actually think somehow he and Meg met in life too, it works for me).
My usual Robin check is going to be kind of short because I more or less nothing him this episode. There wasn’t as much Much abuse as my memory sort of thought happened, but I still feel like Much’s anger at Robin is mostly deserved though I’m not sure he really understands his own feelings, just knows that it’s upsetting. But I think it ties in with my point about Robin being good to strangers but not his friends; Carter doesn’t mean hardly anything to Robin so Robin can swoop in, have their meeting be meaningful and then have not mean anything later. He’s not good at showing the people who love him personally that he cares for them, and that’s what Much is responding too.
In Much’s eyes the exception to that is Marian, but he’s only half right. Robin is still bad with Marian now that they’re living together and having to interact regularly, instead of him running off to Nottingham, having a meaningful moment or two, and then running back to the forest. I mean, Robin effectively tells Marian to go make him a sandwich this episode, the only reason that’s not literally what he said was because the sandwich hadn’t been invented yet (not that that necessarily stops this show on other things). It’s John who actually goes to talk to Marian (and that scene is sweet) because Robin can’t actually deal with her up close and personal.
In some ways I guess I have a lot to say about Robin, but it’s really more about Marian. Because Robin isn’t 100% wrong that she’s not thinking clearly driven by grief and anger and she’d make mistakes she would later regret (like going to the forest in the first place) and they’re mistakes that put the gang in danger having to worry about protecting her from. But he doesn’t help her in any way, the same way Much complains Robin’s not a good friend to him. The part of Marian that at least a little bit wanted to come to the forest was because she wanted to be with Robin, and yet all she gets is the condescending leader Robin that orders rather than talks, that expects obedience and treats this as a military operation where he cannot be questioned. And that’s not the man she...even kind of loves; maybe Robin of Locksley and Marian of Knighton had a chance in a normal life, but they have no chance in the one they have.
Also not much remarked on, and not in the terms I think of it, is that grief turns Marian a little bit Guy, beating up prisoners is totally okay now by her. Now Maz, imagine a lifetime of tragedy and someone telling you that beating up prisoners was both okay and should make you feel better, and that’s the beginnings of what Guy has in his head from Vasey.
Allan and Marian’s relationship is particularly interesting this time around. This is his proving that he’s more loyal than Robin gave him credit for last time (also, apparently they don’t kill this episode, so they mainly kill friends now?), and Marian willing to letting him prove he deserved another chance.
Which brings up to Guy and Marian. Guy is doing so much brooding, and Vasey’s nettling just hurt in a way I can’t quite express. It’s just so...terrible. Guy has feelings you know, and they’re not the murderous kind so he doesn’t know what to do with them except brood.
But they’re actual scenes together, whoa so much there. Again we have the raw Guy who just lets it all out, his heart on his black leather sleeve. He has no idea how to express most of those feelings so they come out all the more raw and blunt, but he’s suddenly found himself so full of feelings after years of not having nearly so many feelings to deal with, and they’re all about her and the life he wants with her. Let’s be real, he’s a terrible choice in life partner, he’s the kind who gets angry and burns houses and has a possessive streak a mile wide, along with any number of attachment issues that make him unable to leave Vasey just as much as they bond him to Marian. But he lets her in, and she tells herself she only accepts it because it’s good for the cause, but she likes that his heart is so evidently hers. He’s just as stifling as Robin, but fighting with him in energy rather that exhaustion.
And that scene is really good for vidding, I remember that.
Robin Hood 2x09
This has never been an episode I had strong feelings about, or anything really new to say on. The only thing that needs commenting on, and it’s not a new comment, is how crap Robin’s proposal to Marian is, and that fact that I’m pretty sure she’s just running away from Robin in the end. Also this is the moment of truth, she can’t run back to the forest without making it clear she’s with Robin and being stuck with that life, and she doesn’t want that, so she goes back to the castle.
I still don’t think she actually likes Robin that much, and I don’t just mean Robin of the woods. I know that’s not the impression the show wants me to have, I’ve seen the end of the season, but she doesn’t seem to like him very much. She accepts his proposal in another impulsive act after Edward’s death, because Robin invokes that feeling. His terrible, horrible, proposal that she knows is awful. And then at the first opportunity she decides she doesn’t want to stay with her new fiancé, she’s going to go back to hang out with the other man she has on the hook, the she clearly wants to bone even if she doesn’t know how to handle any of her feelings for.
I do like Djaq in this episode. And it actually seemed a lot funnier than most of the episodes while still being funny for the ridiculous like usual. But for once I have a limited amount to say.
Besides, the next episode is Walkabout and I will have a world of things to say about that one I suspect.
Robin Hood 2x10
I love this episode, on reflection I’m not quite sure it’s as strong as I remember, but I still really like it.
John’s decent in the ranks seems to come out of nowhere, Robin continues to exist as a big ball of meh, and it might help if I ever understood what was so damned important about the pact. I get it’s important to Vasey and the Black Knights, both to keep it out of enemy hands and for proof of allegiance within the ranks, but what good does Robin even get out of it at this point?
I have thoughts on Much, but I can’t find words to discuss it that really make sense. Poor Much, although I’m not blaming Robin exactly, at least not in this specific episode, it’s more about the pattern of their lives and Robin’s behavior that has made Much feel like he’s losing his best friend/love of his life and can’t actually say it even though Much is the type who would normally speak his heart.
But all that’s beside the point, because is Guy of Gisborne’s finest hour. When I think of the Guy we might have had, of the man he might have been, this is how you know it’s a better life. I had a pretty steep escalation with Guy and Guy/Marian first time I watched this; I just never liked Robin for so long but sometime in the first half of s2, by ‘For England,’ I let myself really start seeing Guy, but it wasn’t until here, when his capacity to be the better man was fully established that I threw myself into the ring on his side, and that of G/M (I had appreciated the chemistry at times before but not exactly shipped it hard). Because he could have been a hero; and all that was required was a lack of Vasey.
It’s not Marian that makes him a better man, except for the last few steps that make great leaps. Mostly all he needs is the chance to find his own way and a light to follow. And if he can be that better man, he and Marian could do great things together.
Without Vasey he accepts that for some reason Marian can contact Robin without anger or hatred. Without Vasey, he can ask for help from a man he hates at only a reminder of how necessary it is. Without Vasey he makes sure the peasants that he by and large hates have as much protection as they can from the oncoming battle. Without Vasey to pull him away from Marian’s side he realizes he would rather die with her than live without her.
He doesn’t even realize that, without Vasey, he is a better man. He’s still only reacting to what’s going on around him, but he does it with the understanding that what is good for all is also good for him, even after he knows he’s going to survive. Yes it’s partly for Marian, and he certainly comes back for Marian, he’s not a particularly selfless hero even at his best, but he is not a bad man when he is his own man.
This is the Guy that makes the end of the season so terrible, and next season so very hard to watch, because we know he’s better than that, but he forgets that he is better than the hate and anger and (next season) crazy. And as much as the ‘let my world turn to ash’ line is amazing, it hurts, because he’s only a few episode from burning his world down and never really building it again, just the beginnings before it ends for good.
I like Allan in the episode too, he just wants to come home and he’s being rejected again. Welcomes to Guy’s world, Allan, it’s lonely and tragic, and you will escape it long before he does.
And Marian...I would probably have a lot more thoughts on Marian if my heart wasn’t all with Guy here. She has to see some of the good in him from this. I’m not saying she has to love him, I think they’d make an amazing couple but in character it’s not a matter of scoring brownie points to earn her love, and even if it was he’s far shy of the mark after the shit he’s pulled; but he’s not the villain here. Again, a little hard to watch knowing the end. Because her willfulness will be the death of her, and for all intents and purposes, of him to.
Robin Hood 2x11
Yeah I still love this episode, although as with the last couple, I’m finding that by this point in a marathon viewing I’m less inclined to talk about it that I was at first. This has accomplished its goal of bringing back my RH writing muses, I’ve got a few ideas in addition to continuing FT and all pretty epic; but I’m almost to the point of calling it quits on the reviews and just watching for a while (although I think s3 has more to do with getting in the right headspace to work on FT so I might want to take some notes.
Or maybe I just don’t want to write about the next couple episodes. Either way, next rewatch I’ll have to do more detailed reviews of the episodes I’m going to not bother with this time (starting with Lardiner I guess); for now I think just watching sounds better.
