Yet more Robin Hood
Oct. 31st, 2016 11:29 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jedi_of_urthI'll warn you now, this is the last post that will be all full reviews, I ran out of steam to do full reactions later in the season.
Robin Hood 2x01
So let’s throw one thing out there, for anyone who hasn’t guessed, I’m racing through this rewatch because I’m hoping to work on Final Testament for NaNo. I don’t have a good original story I want to work on and FT is something I’ve wanted to get back to for years. Hence a lot of these notes are very character driven although that doesn’t explain why I spend so much time talking about Robin, I know I won’t get anywhere near the series until Book 3 (hopefully not another 6 year lag between even trying, but I make no promises) but I need to make note of important episodes for character and what should be figured in still pre series. This is an episode I should probably revisit as I get nearer the series and FT deals with the setting up of the conspiracy and everything.
However, I thought it was one I would think I would note as needing to rewatch again when working on writing because of Davina who I kind of skimmed around in Book 1, but really now I remember there’s so little character to work with that I can kind of do whatever I want with her in the past. She definitely makes an impression but she isn’t actually much of a character. And she’d really the one who turns Robin’s death spectacle into an idiotic walking away from the hero in peril farce.
Yep, s2 Robin is in full asshole mode. And I hate his season 2 haircut; yet another place where as he falls Guy rises, because Guy has great s2 hair. Much is getting abused and apparently now we’re supposed to laugh at that instead of thinking it’s wrong, but I still think it’s wrong.
Robin’s an ass to everyone, but as usual I want to draw attention to him and Marian. I don’t think she likes him nearly as much as we’re supposed to think she does. She clearly hates the idea of running way with him, makes the exact same stipulations she did with Guy of when the king returns (yes evidently born of different reasons, but it’s there), and she doesn’t think he respects her...probably because he doesn’t. Yeah we’ve reached the stage where I probably wouldn’t like Robin anyway for his treatment of others, but I still hate him with Marian the most...except when I hate him for Much the most.
But I don’t want to talk about Robin, I want to talk about Allan; the one gang member who ever gets a real arc...kind of, since there’s no real fallout from it it’s like 2/3 of an arc and then we pretend it never happened. But it’s a really good arc while we get it. Allan clearly cares about the gang and he isn’t going to betray them specifically, but he doesn’t believe in ideals and he doesn’t have faith in people, even his friends if things get messy. But this does seem like some logical steps after the end of s1. Robin and Much have hope of rewards at the end of all this if they either win or at least hold out long enough; John’s been an outlaw too long to want better than what he has as the mission is already more than he had for many years; Will and Djaq are a) just good people, b) ones with skills they could pursue if things change and c) people with faith in a better future. But Allan? Allan doesn’t have much in the way of hope for a good ending in all this, and he’s the sort that needs one.
He’s also the sort of person that Guy very much understands. They’re personalities are very different, Allan being an essentially good person who’s a fast talker and crowd pleaser, who at least likes other people and doesn’t wish them ill, while Guy being an overgrown toddler mixed with an emo 15 year old who hates people with very few exceptions and whose capacity for good has long been buried under cruelty and Vasey’s influence. My point, only Allan would have been in that bar swindling people Robin usually gives money too; and seeing that, Guy knew Allan wasn’t a true believer in the church of Robin Hood, he has enough personal desire that there was room for him to be useful.
Another point, there seems to be a fair amount of time between the end of s1 and here; Will’s had time to build the camp, Vasey’s set up this big meeting with the Black Knights (probably after the failure of his previous big plan), Marian’s healed enough to be back as the NWM. I can only conclude Vasey sent Guy out to call the Black Knights, because otherwise I feel like he and Marian would have had a showdown well before this. And the time skip also works to explain why Allan’s gotten so much fussier after coming around in 1x13.
So after finishing s1, I took some time to try and remember how the s2 G/M arc worked. I could be wrong but I wanted to see what I remembered. Obviously it starts with him burning her house down, but I seem to recall there’s a pretty clear path from him being “Grr I hate you” to “Why won’t you love me Marian?” so that we can get to “Without her my world may as well turn to ash.” I would point out that even in this Guy’s attitude is different that I think we would have seen in a lot of s1. While the ‘Vasey as cruel one, Guy as attack dog’ thing is there in s1 it doesn’t always seem like all the writers were on the same page. The moment here where Guy’s attitude is “Can I please use force if they resist” while Vasey’s is “Just use force anyway.” Guy is pissed at Marian and he is clearly not hurt by the fact that he ends up burning Knighton down (at least not until later episodes when he starts to feel things again), he probably wants an excuse to go in full force; but he needs Vasey’s say so, his instinct is still that there needs to be an excuse. I’ll resurrect what I said a couple reviews ago, not exactly a gold star in reasonable or ethical behavior, but like with Allan there are cracks in the person he seems to be that can still sway him to good or evil.
I’m going to keep a closer eye on something now, because when I said a few times in s1that Vasey and Robin kind of flirt with each other it’s mostly in the context of them enjoying the game they have going and some respect of a...well worthy adversary seems the wrong word as neither of them think the other is worthy of anything but their match on the other side of the game. But this episode might kind of changes things where it doesn’t seem to be a game anymore, but I don’t remember if that development actually changes anything.
But I still need to keep this episode in my reference queue because it has names and ideas I’ll need to keep in mind at some point.
Robin Hood 2x02
This episode should probably be a test for how people are going to respond to this show as a whole. Can you handle historical inaccuracies? Can you handle the cheese? How about the inability to decide if this is an Ocean’s 11 ripoff or an Indian Jones one? This episode is far from the best episode around, I just think it’s sort of condensed RH, not the best not the worst, but certainly enough to know if it’s a show for you.
I’ve realized something that maybe I saw back in the day but don’t recall, the difference between the castle drama and the outlaw drama is that team castle knows they all hate each other while the outlaws can barely stand each other but pretend they don’t. It ties in with the Much abuse, Robin’s dickishness, Allan drifting away from the group, John’s anger issues, etc. The episode says Will is angry, but he’s probably the least angry of the bunch, or at least he’s angry without letting it turn him horrible.
This also brings in a huge reason why s2 Robin is hard for me to deal with, he’s incredibly selfish about wanting to save the king. *He* loves Richard, but aside from Much the rest of them don’t really give a damn about the king, he’s not even Djaq’s king. He’s not spending so much time and effort at robbing this round of taxes to help people, he’s doing it for the king. He’s dragging the rest of them into what should have been certain death which would leave the peasants of Nottingham without anyone helping them out, no longer even to help people against the immediate threat of Vasey but the nebulous threat of an alliance who doesn’t like Richard. If he wants to be a soldier fighting to protect Richard on the homefront, that’s up to him, but to me he’s not a hero of the people anymore.
Honestly I think Marian has more chemistry with Count Booby than she ever does with Robin. It may help that they’re not pretending there is some kind of great love story going on and always playing super saccharine music every time they’re around each other, they barely even know or like each other, but I would been okay if she’d run off to Bavaria with him.
Guy has moved on from ‘hate you’ level to “I totally don’t care and I’m going to be mean to prove it’ levels, he even manages to still believes he doesn’t care by the end, though I suspect he’s cracking under the surface. If memory serves next time is ‘I totally don’t care (you still totally believe I totally don’t care, right?) though don’t you think I’m hot without my shirt on?’ then a stop at ‘fine, damn it I care a little (but just a little)’ then something along the lines of ‘just because I care doesn’t mean it means anything’ before getting to ‘not only do I care, I think I care more than I ever did before.’
I actually don’t have all that much to say on this one, I wish I did, but it’s just mostly fun and ridiculous . Really even for me it’s ridiculous almost to the point of not being fun anymore. It doesn’t quite cross that line but the bottomless pit it a thing that has to hit me in the right place and it just about held on to fun this time, but I’m not sure it always would. Plus the fact that I mostly wish Robin would have fallen down it doesn’t help. Wow that hatred’s gotten strong fast.
Robin Hood 2x03
The thing is I hate like 75% or this episode, but the remaining 25% is amazing. And that 25% makes the 75% seem sillier in relation, because do you really put a scene dripping with sex in the middle of your episode targeted at children?
I hate the junior gang, at least the couple who talk. Maybe not to the point where I wish them dead but smacked around and shut up, I’d support that. I do not want to watch scenes about the little brats. And it’s compounded by two things, little Robin just reinforcing how much of a dick regular Robin is, and the mistreatment of Much. John is sort of good with the kids, which is nice continuity since he’s the dad of the group.
I think part of the issue with the Much abuse specific to this episode is, that again the episode seems to want to be for kids but it encourages them to laugh at Much based on his class and doesn’t prove that he’s just as much a hero as the rest of them. Even his rant, that is 100% correct that he does more than the rest of them, is just laughed off rather than anyone learning anything from it. Truly, if the show followed conventional storytelling and a character whose skills are put down will end up being the one to save the save the day ultimately, Much would save the day every time; and yet still think people would somehow learn nothing from it because they’re pretty much just terrible to Much.
But I don’t even want to talk about the main part of the episode, let’s talk team castle trying to salvage this episode. Because Guy and Allan’s scenes are awesome, Guy and Marian’s scenes are awesome, Guy is just awesome. I don’t think season 2 exactly changed anything, but it is being more overt with the Guy is just not as awful as he could be or as Vasey wants him to be. In fact going straight from the scene where Vasey chews him out for not killing the kids to Robin telling him off for terrorizing kids is borderline uncomfortable, because we see that Guy does not have to be villain if he was given better guidance, but Robin has no compassion for the morally grey. I feel like Robin comes off as the villain in that scene considering its placement, he’s just butthurt about not being called Lord of Locksley. Guy is the one obsessed with titles and wealth and possessions, that’s who he is, but Robin acts like he’s better than that but he totally isn’t.
With Guy and Allan, Allan s definitely getting into this deal, and he’s mostly walking down the garden path himself. He could walk away from this deal at any time, he could have told the gang the first night he got back to the woods, he could try to play triple agent or at least not give away the whole game, but he doesn’t,. This time it’s not just generic harmless information, it completely messes up the plan twice over.
And oh, Guy and Marian. At this point Marian is hella stirred by Guy, and maybe realizing she always was a little bit. I kind of wonder how far thigs would have gone if circumstances hadn’t intervened, and definitely put Marian’s frustration with Robin down to “Now I’m all hot and bothered and it’s 1193 so I don’t know about masturbation.” Also the fact that yet again Robin insisted on following her in the name of protecting her but it comes off a having no respect for her. Between that scene and the end, Guy clearly has no idea what to make of whatever’s going on between them. He’s still suspicious, that she’s probably dangling herself in front of him for her freedom, and may even be helping Robin; but it’s not what he wants to believe. He wants to believe she wants him back, that she realizes she made a mistake, and is willing to meet him halfway on some things this time. And while sure her main motive was saving Robin in the end, I do think she didn’t want to see Guy dead either. She probably wouldn’t have been willing to go so far for him, but she at least sees or senses some of the layers in Guy, and no doubt makes note of just how terrible Vasey is to Guy. Back in 1x08 he was dismissive of the idea of a hostage exchange for Guy and I don’t know if she really noted it then, but I don’t see how she couldn’t see here that even if she doesn’t particularly like Guy, he deserves better than Vasey being the main influence in his life. The rest of them of course refuse to see it, but she is also living with Vasey having control over her life, so must have some sympathy for someone who has lived with it so much longer.
At least, that’s how it would be if I was running things.
Robin Hood 2x04
This was a surprisingly good episode considering I don’t find it particularly memorable. Pretty much the rest of the gang had their establishing episodes in s1 but Will doesn’t get his until here, and even this is not as much about him as most of the others were (although Turk Flu barely counts as being Djaq’s episode) if fact I have very little to say about Will here, but I’m sure that very surprising at this point.
There is surprisingly little Much abuse in this one, which keeps it from losing those points, especially after the last one.
And this is even one of the better Robin episodes in quite a while. I...don’t dislike Robin here. He’s not even as ass to Marian (although I really wonder if I would like this ship better if it wasn’t for that damn music cue that always plays; I still don’t think I’d like it exactly as all the other problems would be there, but that music is awful). He’s a little too commanding getting the gang into Pitt Street for my taste, but his intentions are good and he at least technically tells them they don’t have to go with him. And his ‘whatever it takes to stop Will’ is a bit harsh and I don’t entirely agree with it, but the stakes are established to be high enough that...it’s cold but not dickish. And there’s actually no attempt to go through with it, it might be harder to forgive if there had been; but in any case as is I’m not holding it against Robin. Wow, it’s been a while since I got through an episode thinking Robin was a halfway decent human being.
I feel like I knew this back in the day, but is the evil guy of the episode meant to be someone specific or representative of someone specific? Because it feels like he’s a thing and I’m just not getting the reference, but I don’t know what it would be.
I guess this episode is more about Will than any other character; everybody gets a moment or two but no one get any real focus. Will gets a little bit more, but not enough to say he was really the focus. Djaq’s background in medicine is important, John’s experience is important, we’re still moving Allan’s plot along, Marian’s role as the NWM (and her current inability to have that role) is important. Maybe the reason it feels like Will still isn’t really the focus is he’s kind of a sideplot. No one in the main plot is in particular focus, but it is the main plot that most of the characters orbit, but Will is send off into a subplot where he does get focus, so structurally it’s an weird duck.
As part of the setup of people coming in for a few important moments and then going out of focus, Guy doesn’t end up with a lot to do. I’m a little curious why Will doesn’t just kill both Vasey and Guy since he hates both of them, but maybe he wasn’t sure he could. Guy’s main stuff is naturally with Marian. Vasey says her big eyes don’t work on Guy anymore, but I’m pretty sure they do; he moves in like he wants to say something, then thinks better of it and doesn’t. Watching her at Vasey’s mercy he can’t stop having feelings, and he’s not good with feelings; but a broken clock is right from time to time and either he simply does the right thing or he realizes that she may not accept him helping her but she will accept for her father so he decides to do what he can on that front. Baby steps my darling, but there is progress being made.
I have to hand it to Vasey for coming up with a reasonable plan while dying for how to get himself out of this mess, that takes some skill. And yeah, there’s still an element of the game between him and Robin, although it does seem less flirty than it used to.
Robin Hood 2x05
I feel like my opinions on this episode have changed, I should go back to the last review of it I wrote a see, but I don’t want to mess with my current thoughts. I still like the episode, but my opinions on the key part at the end with Robin and Allan feel different.
Mainly, while I’m not exactly on Robin’s side, I don’t think he’s in the wrong either. They’re gang only works with absolute trust and Allan’s not going to have that. There’s no real way to have probationary members, as Tom proved and that was a probationary introduction as opposed to someone who had full trust losing it. And this season Robin is thinking more like a soldier (probably too much for my taste) and what they’re trying to fight makes trust even more important. So I may not like it, but he’s probably justified.
And Allan’s case, while true of Robin’s faults (more so than I often feel the show wants to acknowledge) doesn’t really provide an excuse for what he’s done. Confessing secrets under torture, I think Robin completely forgives, but that’s not what happened; yes the capture and torture did happen, but Allan sold them out for the money and did so repeatedly. It’s not that he agreed to something under duress just to get out of torture, that would have worked for a secret or two but this has gone on for weeks at least maybe months. Once he was out Guy and the Sheriff had nothing on him, but he kept going back for the money, even escalating the type of secrets he was willing to share as he got comfortable with the role. Could Robin have had more compassion for how it happened, sure, but Robin isn’t actually that compassionate.
I stumbled across a concept a while back that I probably always felt about Robin but didn’t quite put into words. That someone who is kind and compassionate in the abstract but treats people around them terribly is so much more hateable than the opposite. And that it makes that benevolence to all others seem hypocritical because it seems like it can only be given in the abstract versus the very real mistreatment of those they claim to love personally. Robin is a hero in the abstract (kind of...maybe sometimes) trying to be noble and just and what have you but he treats his friends like crap. Which is why I think my mood about this scene can swing so wide, because in the abstract it’s the right thing to do, but personally it not, and this time around I just happen to be more comfortable with the abstract I guess.
I have a similar reaction to Robin’s treatment of Much through all this. Because, in the abstract, as a leader, he has to suspect everyone equally; he has to be detached and consider every option. But personally? Much should be offended at even being considered, because Much does not deal in the abstract elements of this question. His loyalty is unwavering and should be unquestionable, Robin is the love of his life whatever form you think that love takes; he is perhaps the least loyal to the gang, but only because his first loyalty is forever to Robin above anything else. So in the abstract this episode isn’t too bad on the Much abuse, but on a personal level it’s up there with the worst we’ve had.
To the point where my only thoughts about using Will in the end is that I’m glad it wasn’t Much. Although it leaves room open to say Robin had his doubts about Much, I think it’s because even acting it would have been too much to hurt Much that way. That and Much the character isn’t a good actor especially without a lot more warning to play along. And that while Will is an unlikely spy, he still has enough potential for the ruse to work as it wouldn’t have with Much.
You know, for a rewatch that’s being done to bring back my Guy writing muses I often end up with less to say on that subject (although I think next ep will break that pattern), and all I’m really going to comment on here is that Marian did a lot to create her problems with Guy this season. The feelings were already there and she needed to turn them from hate to being something else and she didn’t realize how close they were to love (and/or obsession) when she started playing this game with them. But she encouraged him to think she was interested, in their first scene she admits to have a secondary motive but her only cover for why she’s following him out in the town is that it’s because of him. She has to be glad he’s not seeing through her lies, but it’s only working because he’s letting himself believe and hope in things she’d rather he didn’t want.
At this point I don’t know that she knows exactly the dangerous element she’s playing with, though partly because things around there yet. Right now she knows him to be dangerous and is only seeing small flashes of anything more; but she hasn’t dragged his heart into the game yet, and that’s when the real danger starts. But it’s also when it gets more complicated for her, both the game and personally, because Guy’s heart is not something to be handled lightly.
Robin Hood 2x01
So let’s throw one thing out there, for anyone who hasn’t guessed, I’m racing through this rewatch because I’m hoping to work on Final Testament for NaNo. I don’t have a good original story I want to work on and FT is something I’ve wanted to get back to for years. Hence a lot of these notes are very character driven although that doesn’t explain why I spend so much time talking about Robin, I know I won’t get anywhere near the series until Book 3 (hopefully not another 6 year lag between even trying, but I make no promises) but I need to make note of important episodes for character and what should be figured in still pre series. This is an episode I should probably revisit as I get nearer the series and FT deals with the setting up of the conspiracy and everything.
However, I thought it was one I would think I would note as needing to rewatch again when working on writing because of Davina who I kind of skimmed around in Book 1, but really now I remember there’s so little character to work with that I can kind of do whatever I want with her in the past. She definitely makes an impression but she isn’t actually much of a character. And she’d really the one who turns Robin’s death spectacle into an idiotic walking away from the hero in peril farce.
Yep, s2 Robin is in full asshole mode. And I hate his season 2 haircut; yet another place where as he falls Guy rises, because Guy has great s2 hair. Much is getting abused and apparently now we’re supposed to laugh at that instead of thinking it’s wrong, but I still think it’s wrong.
Robin’s an ass to everyone, but as usual I want to draw attention to him and Marian. I don’t think she likes him nearly as much as we’re supposed to think she does. She clearly hates the idea of running way with him, makes the exact same stipulations she did with Guy of when the king returns (yes evidently born of different reasons, but it’s there), and she doesn’t think he respects her...probably because he doesn’t. Yeah we’ve reached the stage where I probably wouldn’t like Robin anyway for his treatment of others, but I still hate him with Marian the most...except when I hate him for Much the most.
But I don’t want to talk about Robin, I want to talk about Allan; the one gang member who ever gets a real arc...kind of, since there’s no real fallout from it it’s like 2/3 of an arc and then we pretend it never happened. But it’s a really good arc while we get it. Allan clearly cares about the gang and he isn’t going to betray them specifically, but he doesn’t believe in ideals and he doesn’t have faith in people, even his friends if things get messy. But this does seem like some logical steps after the end of s1. Robin and Much have hope of rewards at the end of all this if they either win or at least hold out long enough; John’s been an outlaw too long to want better than what he has as the mission is already more than he had for many years; Will and Djaq are a) just good people, b) ones with skills they could pursue if things change and c) people with faith in a better future. But Allan? Allan doesn’t have much in the way of hope for a good ending in all this, and he’s the sort that needs one.
He’s also the sort of person that Guy very much understands. They’re personalities are very different, Allan being an essentially good person who’s a fast talker and crowd pleaser, who at least likes other people and doesn’t wish them ill, while Guy being an overgrown toddler mixed with an emo 15 year old who hates people with very few exceptions and whose capacity for good has long been buried under cruelty and Vasey’s influence. My point, only Allan would have been in that bar swindling people Robin usually gives money too; and seeing that, Guy knew Allan wasn’t a true believer in the church of Robin Hood, he has enough personal desire that there was room for him to be useful.
Another point, there seems to be a fair amount of time between the end of s1 and here; Will’s had time to build the camp, Vasey’s set up this big meeting with the Black Knights (probably after the failure of his previous big plan), Marian’s healed enough to be back as the NWM. I can only conclude Vasey sent Guy out to call the Black Knights, because otherwise I feel like he and Marian would have had a showdown well before this. And the time skip also works to explain why Allan’s gotten so much fussier after coming around in 1x13.
So after finishing s1, I took some time to try and remember how the s2 G/M arc worked. I could be wrong but I wanted to see what I remembered. Obviously it starts with him burning her house down, but I seem to recall there’s a pretty clear path from him being “Grr I hate you” to “Why won’t you love me Marian?” so that we can get to “Without her my world may as well turn to ash.” I would point out that even in this Guy’s attitude is different that I think we would have seen in a lot of s1. While the ‘Vasey as cruel one, Guy as attack dog’ thing is there in s1 it doesn’t always seem like all the writers were on the same page. The moment here where Guy’s attitude is “Can I please use force if they resist” while Vasey’s is “Just use force anyway.” Guy is pissed at Marian and he is clearly not hurt by the fact that he ends up burning Knighton down (at least not until later episodes when he starts to feel things again), he probably wants an excuse to go in full force; but he needs Vasey’s say so, his instinct is still that there needs to be an excuse. I’ll resurrect what I said a couple reviews ago, not exactly a gold star in reasonable or ethical behavior, but like with Allan there are cracks in the person he seems to be that can still sway him to good or evil.
I’m going to keep a closer eye on something now, because when I said a few times in s1that Vasey and Robin kind of flirt with each other it’s mostly in the context of them enjoying the game they have going and some respect of a...well worthy adversary seems the wrong word as neither of them think the other is worthy of anything but their match on the other side of the game. But this episode might kind of changes things where it doesn’t seem to be a game anymore, but I don’t remember if that development actually changes anything.
But I still need to keep this episode in my reference queue because it has names and ideas I’ll need to keep in mind at some point.
Robin Hood 2x02
This episode should probably be a test for how people are going to respond to this show as a whole. Can you handle historical inaccuracies? Can you handle the cheese? How about the inability to decide if this is an Ocean’s 11 ripoff or an Indian Jones one? This episode is far from the best episode around, I just think it’s sort of condensed RH, not the best not the worst, but certainly enough to know if it’s a show for you.
I’ve realized something that maybe I saw back in the day but don’t recall, the difference between the castle drama and the outlaw drama is that team castle knows they all hate each other while the outlaws can barely stand each other but pretend they don’t. It ties in with the Much abuse, Robin’s dickishness, Allan drifting away from the group, John’s anger issues, etc. The episode says Will is angry, but he’s probably the least angry of the bunch, or at least he’s angry without letting it turn him horrible.
This also brings in a huge reason why s2 Robin is hard for me to deal with, he’s incredibly selfish about wanting to save the king. *He* loves Richard, but aside from Much the rest of them don’t really give a damn about the king, he’s not even Djaq’s king. He’s not spending so much time and effort at robbing this round of taxes to help people, he’s doing it for the king. He’s dragging the rest of them into what should have been certain death which would leave the peasants of Nottingham without anyone helping them out, no longer even to help people against the immediate threat of Vasey but the nebulous threat of an alliance who doesn’t like Richard. If he wants to be a soldier fighting to protect Richard on the homefront, that’s up to him, but to me he’s not a hero of the people anymore.
Honestly I think Marian has more chemistry with Count Booby than she ever does with Robin. It may help that they’re not pretending there is some kind of great love story going on and always playing super saccharine music every time they’re around each other, they barely even know or like each other, but I would been okay if she’d run off to Bavaria with him.
Guy has moved on from ‘hate you’ level to “I totally don’t care and I’m going to be mean to prove it’ levels, he even manages to still believes he doesn’t care by the end, though I suspect he’s cracking under the surface. If memory serves next time is ‘I totally don’t care (you still totally believe I totally don’t care, right?) though don’t you think I’m hot without my shirt on?’ then a stop at ‘fine, damn it I care a little (but just a little)’ then something along the lines of ‘just because I care doesn’t mean it means anything’ before getting to ‘not only do I care, I think I care more than I ever did before.’
I actually don’t have all that much to say on this one, I wish I did, but it’s just mostly fun and ridiculous . Really even for me it’s ridiculous almost to the point of not being fun anymore. It doesn’t quite cross that line but the bottomless pit it a thing that has to hit me in the right place and it just about held on to fun this time, but I’m not sure it always would. Plus the fact that I mostly wish Robin would have fallen down it doesn’t help. Wow that hatred’s gotten strong fast.
Robin Hood 2x03
The thing is I hate like 75% or this episode, but the remaining 25% is amazing. And that 25% makes the 75% seem sillier in relation, because do you really put a scene dripping with sex in the middle of your episode targeted at children?
I hate the junior gang, at least the couple who talk. Maybe not to the point where I wish them dead but smacked around and shut up, I’d support that. I do not want to watch scenes about the little brats. And it’s compounded by two things, little Robin just reinforcing how much of a dick regular Robin is, and the mistreatment of Much. John is sort of good with the kids, which is nice continuity since he’s the dad of the group.
I think part of the issue with the Much abuse specific to this episode is, that again the episode seems to want to be for kids but it encourages them to laugh at Much based on his class and doesn’t prove that he’s just as much a hero as the rest of them. Even his rant, that is 100% correct that he does more than the rest of them, is just laughed off rather than anyone learning anything from it. Truly, if the show followed conventional storytelling and a character whose skills are put down will end up being the one to save the save the day ultimately, Much would save the day every time; and yet still think people would somehow learn nothing from it because they’re pretty much just terrible to Much.
But I don’t even want to talk about the main part of the episode, let’s talk team castle trying to salvage this episode. Because Guy and Allan’s scenes are awesome, Guy and Marian’s scenes are awesome, Guy is just awesome. I don’t think season 2 exactly changed anything, but it is being more overt with the Guy is just not as awful as he could be or as Vasey wants him to be. In fact going straight from the scene where Vasey chews him out for not killing the kids to Robin telling him off for terrorizing kids is borderline uncomfortable, because we see that Guy does not have to be villain if he was given better guidance, but Robin has no compassion for the morally grey. I feel like Robin comes off as the villain in that scene considering its placement, he’s just butthurt about not being called Lord of Locksley. Guy is the one obsessed with titles and wealth and possessions, that’s who he is, but Robin acts like he’s better than that but he totally isn’t.
With Guy and Allan, Allan s definitely getting into this deal, and he’s mostly walking down the garden path himself. He could walk away from this deal at any time, he could have told the gang the first night he got back to the woods, he could try to play triple agent or at least not give away the whole game, but he doesn’t,. This time it’s not just generic harmless information, it completely messes up the plan twice over.
And oh, Guy and Marian. At this point Marian is hella stirred by Guy, and maybe realizing she always was a little bit. I kind of wonder how far thigs would have gone if circumstances hadn’t intervened, and definitely put Marian’s frustration with Robin down to “Now I’m all hot and bothered and it’s 1193 so I don’t know about masturbation.” Also the fact that yet again Robin insisted on following her in the name of protecting her but it comes off a having no respect for her. Between that scene and the end, Guy clearly has no idea what to make of whatever’s going on between them. He’s still suspicious, that she’s probably dangling herself in front of him for her freedom, and may even be helping Robin; but it’s not what he wants to believe. He wants to believe she wants him back, that she realizes she made a mistake, and is willing to meet him halfway on some things this time. And while sure her main motive was saving Robin in the end, I do think she didn’t want to see Guy dead either. She probably wouldn’t have been willing to go so far for him, but she at least sees or senses some of the layers in Guy, and no doubt makes note of just how terrible Vasey is to Guy. Back in 1x08 he was dismissive of the idea of a hostage exchange for Guy and I don’t know if she really noted it then, but I don’t see how she couldn’t see here that even if she doesn’t particularly like Guy, he deserves better than Vasey being the main influence in his life. The rest of them of course refuse to see it, but she is also living with Vasey having control over her life, so must have some sympathy for someone who has lived with it so much longer.
At least, that’s how it would be if I was running things.
Robin Hood 2x04
This was a surprisingly good episode considering I don’t find it particularly memorable. Pretty much the rest of the gang had their establishing episodes in s1 but Will doesn’t get his until here, and even this is not as much about him as most of the others were (although Turk Flu barely counts as being Djaq’s episode) if fact I have very little to say about Will here, but I’m sure that very surprising at this point.
There is surprisingly little Much abuse in this one, which keeps it from losing those points, especially after the last one.
And this is even one of the better Robin episodes in quite a while. I...don’t dislike Robin here. He’s not even as ass to Marian (although I really wonder if I would like this ship better if it wasn’t for that damn music cue that always plays; I still don’t think I’d like it exactly as all the other problems would be there, but that music is awful). He’s a little too commanding getting the gang into Pitt Street for my taste, but his intentions are good and he at least technically tells them they don’t have to go with him. And his ‘whatever it takes to stop Will’ is a bit harsh and I don’t entirely agree with it, but the stakes are established to be high enough that...it’s cold but not dickish. And there’s actually no attempt to go through with it, it might be harder to forgive if there had been; but in any case as is I’m not holding it against Robin. Wow, it’s been a while since I got through an episode thinking Robin was a halfway decent human being.
I feel like I knew this back in the day, but is the evil guy of the episode meant to be someone specific or representative of someone specific? Because it feels like he’s a thing and I’m just not getting the reference, but I don’t know what it would be.
I guess this episode is more about Will than any other character; everybody gets a moment or two but no one get any real focus. Will gets a little bit more, but not enough to say he was really the focus. Djaq’s background in medicine is important, John’s experience is important, we’re still moving Allan’s plot along, Marian’s role as the NWM (and her current inability to have that role) is important. Maybe the reason it feels like Will still isn’t really the focus is he’s kind of a sideplot. No one in the main plot is in particular focus, but it is the main plot that most of the characters orbit, but Will is send off into a subplot where he does get focus, so structurally it’s an weird duck.
As part of the setup of people coming in for a few important moments and then going out of focus, Guy doesn’t end up with a lot to do. I’m a little curious why Will doesn’t just kill both Vasey and Guy since he hates both of them, but maybe he wasn’t sure he could. Guy’s main stuff is naturally with Marian. Vasey says her big eyes don’t work on Guy anymore, but I’m pretty sure they do; he moves in like he wants to say something, then thinks better of it and doesn’t. Watching her at Vasey’s mercy he can’t stop having feelings, and he’s not good with feelings; but a broken clock is right from time to time and either he simply does the right thing or he realizes that she may not accept him helping her but she will accept for her father so he decides to do what he can on that front. Baby steps my darling, but there is progress being made.
I have to hand it to Vasey for coming up with a reasonable plan while dying for how to get himself out of this mess, that takes some skill. And yeah, there’s still an element of the game between him and Robin, although it does seem less flirty than it used to.
Robin Hood 2x05
I feel like my opinions on this episode have changed, I should go back to the last review of it I wrote a see, but I don’t want to mess with my current thoughts. I still like the episode, but my opinions on the key part at the end with Robin and Allan feel different.
Mainly, while I’m not exactly on Robin’s side, I don’t think he’s in the wrong either. They’re gang only works with absolute trust and Allan’s not going to have that. There’s no real way to have probationary members, as Tom proved and that was a probationary introduction as opposed to someone who had full trust losing it. And this season Robin is thinking more like a soldier (probably too much for my taste) and what they’re trying to fight makes trust even more important. So I may not like it, but he’s probably justified.
And Allan’s case, while true of Robin’s faults (more so than I often feel the show wants to acknowledge) doesn’t really provide an excuse for what he’s done. Confessing secrets under torture, I think Robin completely forgives, but that’s not what happened; yes the capture and torture did happen, but Allan sold them out for the money and did so repeatedly. It’s not that he agreed to something under duress just to get out of torture, that would have worked for a secret or two but this has gone on for weeks at least maybe months. Once he was out Guy and the Sheriff had nothing on him, but he kept going back for the money, even escalating the type of secrets he was willing to share as he got comfortable with the role. Could Robin have had more compassion for how it happened, sure, but Robin isn’t actually that compassionate.
I stumbled across a concept a while back that I probably always felt about Robin but didn’t quite put into words. That someone who is kind and compassionate in the abstract but treats people around them terribly is so much more hateable than the opposite. And that it makes that benevolence to all others seem hypocritical because it seems like it can only be given in the abstract versus the very real mistreatment of those they claim to love personally. Robin is a hero in the abstract (kind of...maybe sometimes) trying to be noble and just and what have you but he treats his friends like crap. Which is why I think my mood about this scene can swing so wide, because in the abstract it’s the right thing to do, but personally it not, and this time around I just happen to be more comfortable with the abstract I guess.
I have a similar reaction to Robin’s treatment of Much through all this. Because, in the abstract, as a leader, he has to suspect everyone equally; he has to be detached and consider every option. But personally? Much should be offended at even being considered, because Much does not deal in the abstract elements of this question. His loyalty is unwavering and should be unquestionable, Robin is the love of his life whatever form you think that love takes; he is perhaps the least loyal to the gang, but only because his first loyalty is forever to Robin above anything else. So in the abstract this episode isn’t too bad on the Much abuse, but on a personal level it’s up there with the worst we’ve had.
To the point where my only thoughts about using Will in the end is that I’m glad it wasn’t Much. Although it leaves room open to say Robin had his doubts about Much, I think it’s because even acting it would have been too much to hurt Much that way. That and Much the character isn’t a good actor especially without a lot more warning to play along. And that while Will is an unlikely spy, he still has enough potential for the ruse to work as it wouldn’t have with Much.
You know, for a rewatch that’s being done to bring back my Guy writing muses I often end up with less to say on that subject (although I think next ep will break that pattern), and all I’m really going to comment on here is that Marian did a lot to create her problems with Guy this season. The feelings were already there and she needed to turn them from hate to being something else and she didn’t realize how close they were to love (and/or obsession) when she started playing this game with them. But she encouraged him to think she was interested, in their first scene she admits to have a secondary motive but her only cover for why she’s following him out in the town is that it’s because of him. She has to be glad he’s not seeing through her lies, but it’s only working because he’s letting himself believe and hope in things she’d rather he didn’t want.
At this point I don’t know that she knows exactly the dangerous element she’s playing with, though partly because things around there yet. Right now she knows him to be dangerous and is only seeing small flashes of anything more; but she hasn’t dragged his heart into the game yet, and that’s when the real danger starts. But it’s also when it gets more complicated for her, both the game and personally, because Guy’s heart is not something to be handled lightly.
