Hmm...(goes off to find the old soapbox to get up on)
To start with I put most of the wrong on the writing of it as opposed to the IDEA of what happened. I'm not crazy about the idea but if it had been written well I think I could have bought into it a whole lot more than I did.
I think a lot of it starts from the fact that RTD bit off more than he could chew for the s4 finale, wanting it to be a giant blowout with just about everyone we could want around involved, and yet needing to pretty much set things right back where they started in the end of the story. This can be seen even in the small things he did change in the end, like leaving Mickey in the DW main verse, IT MAKES NO SENSE because there wasn't time to explore his motivations at all.
But the worst of it is the resolution of the Doctor and Rose story. Let's start with the problems with the very idea of this resolution working: -We watched two seasons of the Doctor dealing with losing Rose, the very idea that he would choose to leave her makes no sense -Having gone through all that with him feels utterly useless when he appears unable to learn anything from the experience, he continues to angst about the fact that he always ends up alone and the proceeds to push people away rather than face the pain of losing them later. -RTD has even admitted that the idea that Rose would chose Cloen over Ten makes very little sense and I fully agree
Now, some things that *could* have been been done (better) in order to deal with the flaws in the concept: -Do a better job of establishing Ten and Cloen as equally the Doctor (I will never get over tha fact that Ten goes and says goodbye to all the companions as they leave but Cloen's nowhere to be seen, making it clear to me that RTD DIDN'T consider them equally the Doctor). -Especially give some time for Rose to accept Cloen as still the man she loves and tried so hard to get back to. We never see then interact (except a bit in the background of a couple shots) before the BWB scene -Write Rose as actively choosing Cloen (+remaining in Pete's World) instead of being passed off between Doctors. I know some would argue that she did but it's completely undercut by everything in the scene besides the kiss.
And then there's the big one that really could have been fixed by a rewrite, and though it wouldn't have saved it it could have been done in a way that made me less ragey about the whole thing to this day: -Ten's sales pitch. Nothing about it is the least bit convincing that we should accept Cloen as the same man; that Rose would be happier choosing Cloen; that he's learned anything over the last two seasons and who knows how many years for him. It's almost completely OOC, and certainly OOC for in sympathetic character interpretation. It makes absolutely no sense for him to talk about things that way or for him to sneak off without actually saying goodbye, I don't buy it.
The only thing that saves the scene (as much as it cane be saved) is Cloen himself actually. I'd almost say that HE'S actually more believable as the Doctor than Ten, because after Doomsday I don't believe the Doctor would balk in the slightest at spending any and all time he could with Rose or that he would ever give her up if he had in his power to not have to. If Cloen wasn't undercut by the writing at most other points in the story I'd take this and run with it, but I (and I'd think Rose) need more.
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branchandroot
Part 1
Date: 2012-07-04 04:27 am (UTC)To start with I put most of the wrong on the writing of it as opposed to the IDEA of what happened. I'm not crazy about the idea but if it had been written well I think I could have bought into it a whole lot more than I did.
I think a lot of it starts from the fact that RTD bit off more than he could chew for the s4 finale, wanting it to be a giant blowout with just about everyone we could want around involved, and yet needing to pretty much set things right back where they started in the end of the story. This can be seen even in the small things he did change in the end, like leaving Mickey in the DW main verse, IT MAKES NO SENSE because there wasn't time to explore his motivations at all.
But the worst of it is the resolution of the Doctor and Rose story. Let's start with the problems with the very idea of this resolution working:
-We watched two seasons of the Doctor dealing with losing Rose, the very idea that he would choose to leave her makes no sense
-Having gone through all that with him feels utterly useless when he appears unable to learn anything from the experience, he continues to angst about the fact that he always ends up alone and the proceeds to push people away rather than face the pain of losing them later.
-RTD has even admitted that the idea that Rose would chose Cloen over Ten makes very little sense and I fully agree
Now, some things that *could* have been been done (better) in order to deal with the flaws in the concept:
-Do a better job of establishing Ten and Cloen as equally the Doctor (I will never get over tha fact that Ten goes and says goodbye to all the companions as they leave but Cloen's nowhere to be seen, making it clear to me that RTD DIDN'T consider them equally the Doctor).
-Especially give some time for Rose to accept Cloen as still the man she loves and tried so hard to get back to. We never see then interact (except a bit in the background of a couple shots) before the BWB scene
-Write Rose as actively choosing Cloen (+remaining in Pete's World) instead of being passed off between Doctors. I know some would argue that she did but it's completely undercut by everything in the scene besides the kiss.
And then there's the big one that really could have been fixed by a rewrite, and though it wouldn't have saved it it could have been done in a way that made me less ragey about the whole thing to this day:
-Ten's sales pitch. Nothing about it is the least bit convincing that we should accept Cloen as the same man; that Rose would be happier choosing Cloen; that he's learned anything over the last two seasons and who knows how many years for him. It's almost completely OOC, and certainly OOC for in sympathetic character interpretation. It makes absolutely no sense for him to talk about things that way or for him to sneak off without actually saying goodbye, I don't buy it.
The only thing that saves the scene (as much as it cane be saved) is Cloen himself actually. I'd almost say that HE'S actually more believable as the Doctor than Ten, because after Doomsday I don't believe the Doctor would balk in the slightest at spending any and all time he could with Rose or that he would ever give her up if he had in his power to not have to. If Cloen wasn't undercut by the writing at most other points in the story I'd take this and run with it, but I (and I'd think Rose) need more.