jedi_of_urth (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
jedi_of_urth) wrote2009-11-17 12:45 am
jedi_of_urth) wrote2009-11-17 12:45 am
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Waters of Mars thoughts
So yeah, I finally watched Waters of Mars...
General gasping
Whoa...just...whoa.
The first two thirds or so or that was already kind of depressing, if not unexpected that the Doctor would find himself in *another* hopeless situation but then...
At first I couldn’t tell what the story expected us to feel, I believe me exact words were ‘I’m not sure if I’m supposed to be cheering or horrified, but I’m pretty much horrified.’ I mean, RTD has had a history of letting the Doctor be a law unto himself so I couldn’t be *sure* it went to be scaring the shit out of me, but now I can be pretty confident it was. “The laws of time will obey ME,” pretty much trampled over Family of Blood as the darkest moment for the Doctor, and it doesn’t look like it’s over yet.
I *think* this time, unlike in season 3, RTD is planning to actually pay off this build up effectively (which I’ll have more thoughts on when I talk about the promo). Partly I just figure that because he himself brought it to this point this time, whereas in season 3, having not written some of the really dark steps he might not have been as in tune with what how it came off. Also, since he now probably *does* realize it he’s probably even more inclined to make the pay off. And then partly, as much as a part of me would (almost) laugh at him leaving this hanging like a lead balloon over Moffat’s reign, I really don’t think he’d set something like this up with so little time left if he didn’t plan to use the story.
Side note, I have no problem with the absence of the reapers here. The Doctor wasn’t there twice, he probably also gets a power boost to stopping that kind of thing when he calls the full might of being the Lord of Time down on himself. What I was wondering was what had happened to the people we still know on Earth during all the events Adelaide listed off which had no bearing on the rest of the episode.
I’m glad Adelaide recognized that this was.not.right. Not that it was great for him to roll over and accept that he couldn’t do anything for the crew, but fighting against the rules of Time is different that declaring yourself the God of All Time. Or, dare I say it, the Master of Time. Thing is I *hate* the idea that anything is so predestined that it can’t be altered, just like I hate that the Dalek didn’t kill kid-Adelaide just “because.” I mean if they had succeeded in destroying the world, it wouldn’t have happened, therefore by that logic if you know there’s a fixed point death that won’t happen if you destroy Earth and therefore her 50 years earlier you’d be left to conclude that said attempt to destroy Earth wasn’t going to be successful.
Doctor/Rose related
And really Ten I, you sent Rose off with Ten II because *he* was supposed to be the dangerous one?
Actually I’m thinking this is where the problem comes from, in JE he was split in two, the man (not necessarily human, but the man) and the Time Lord, between the short time frame and that Ten I spent JE hanging around Rose it didn’t look that way at first. But ultimately that’s how it ended up and all that’s left for Ten I to be is The Time Lord, everything else he ever could have been, went (or you know, Ten I GAVE) to Ten II.
Another thing I distinctly remember saying in the episode:
Doctor: You didn’t shoot that guy. I loved you for that.
Me: You JACKASS.
If for some reason you can’t figure out why, remember this is in the Doctor/Rose section of the reaction post.
It does sort of go to support the idea that he only didn’t say it in JE because he was so invested in playing matchmaker, because he had made the decision as to how it would go. Or maybe he knew that what was left in Time Lord Doctor wasn’t enough, too much of the man Rose loved was in Ten II. If she could only save one of them from the darkness it might as well be Ten II. Of course it’s circular logic in that he made sure it happened that way by sending them off together and cutting himself off from the chance to have that life, but I have no problem thinking he’d come to that conclusion.
This whole thing has been another round of ‘why the Doctor needs a companion’ because I can’t see this going so far with anyone around him, but there’s a difference between stopping before tumbling into the abyss (which he hesitated at here and then decided to jump anyway where before he’d always had reason to stop) and turning away from it
Considering the fact that he’s wearing the same space suit when he declares himself Lord of Time as he was when he famously told the devil “I believe in HER” I think there might be something there. I’m not great with symbolism that I didn’t think of it until I started writing this paragraph, but it’s there. And of course to me it’s a reminder of how much it is losing (repeatedly) Rose that has changed him between those episodes.
Thoughts including the promo (and some more shipping babble):
I think it’s no coincidence that we’re going down this road again and using the Master at the end. Although, from what little I know it really *ought* to be the Valeyard this time (really should have been last time too), and it could just be the Valeyard claiming to be the Master from what we saw...maybe. I wouldn’t rule it out at least.
As great as it will be to see Donna again, and we do need to address her story again before Ten I regenerates, I don’t see that as enough at this point. Donna is the voice that makes the Doctor stop sure; she can, when he’s at his lowest, get him through it and when he’s not they’re friends. But what he needs is Rose, Rose is the one who makes him want to *be* better
Of course I said that in season 3 too, I’m still not sure I was wrong.
General gasping
Whoa...just...whoa.
The first two thirds or so or that was already kind of depressing, if not unexpected that the Doctor would find himself in *another* hopeless situation but then...
At first I couldn’t tell what the story expected us to feel, I believe me exact words were ‘I’m not sure if I’m supposed to be cheering or horrified, but I’m pretty much horrified.’ I mean, RTD has had a history of letting the Doctor be a law unto himself so I couldn’t be *sure* it went to be scaring the shit out of me, but now I can be pretty confident it was. “The laws of time will obey ME,” pretty much trampled over Family of Blood as the darkest moment for the Doctor, and it doesn’t look like it’s over yet.
I *think* this time, unlike in season 3, RTD is planning to actually pay off this build up effectively (which I’ll have more thoughts on when I talk about the promo). Partly I just figure that because he himself brought it to this point this time, whereas in season 3, having not written some of the really dark steps he might not have been as in tune with what how it came off. Also, since he now probably *does* realize it he’s probably even more inclined to make the pay off. And then partly, as much as a part of me would (almost) laugh at him leaving this hanging like a lead balloon over Moffat’s reign, I really don’t think he’d set something like this up with so little time left if he didn’t plan to use the story.
Side note, I have no problem with the absence of the reapers here. The Doctor wasn’t there twice, he probably also gets a power boost to stopping that kind of thing when he calls the full might of being the Lord of Time down on himself. What I was wondering was what had happened to the people we still know on Earth during all the events Adelaide listed off which had no bearing on the rest of the episode.
I’m glad Adelaide recognized that this was.not.right. Not that it was great for him to roll over and accept that he couldn’t do anything for the crew, but fighting against the rules of Time is different that declaring yourself the God of All Time. Or, dare I say it, the Master of Time. Thing is I *hate* the idea that anything is so predestined that it can’t be altered, just like I hate that the Dalek didn’t kill kid-Adelaide just “because.” I mean if they had succeeded in destroying the world, it wouldn’t have happened, therefore by that logic if you know there’s a fixed point death that won’t happen if you destroy Earth and therefore her 50 years earlier you’d be left to conclude that said attempt to destroy Earth wasn’t going to be successful.
Doctor/Rose related
And really Ten I, you sent Rose off with Ten II because *he* was supposed to be the dangerous one?
Actually I’m thinking this is where the problem comes from, in JE he was split in two, the man (not necessarily human, but the man) and the Time Lord, between the short time frame and that Ten I spent JE hanging around Rose it didn’t look that way at first. But ultimately that’s how it ended up and all that’s left for Ten I to be is The Time Lord, everything else he ever could have been, went (or you know, Ten I GAVE) to Ten II.
Another thing I distinctly remember saying in the episode:
Doctor: You didn’t shoot that guy. I loved you for that.
Me: You JACKASS.
If for some reason you can’t figure out why, remember this is in the Doctor/Rose section of the reaction post.
It does sort of go to support the idea that he only didn’t say it in JE because he was so invested in playing matchmaker, because he had made the decision as to how it would go. Or maybe he knew that what was left in Time Lord Doctor wasn’t enough, too much of the man Rose loved was in Ten II. If she could only save one of them from the darkness it might as well be Ten II. Of course it’s circular logic in that he made sure it happened that way by sending them off together and cutting himself off from the chance to have that life, but I have no problem thinking he’d come to that conclusion.
This whole thing has been another round of ‘why the Doctor needs a companion’ because I can’t see this going so far with anyone around him, but there’s a difference between stopping before tumbling into the abyss (which he hesitated at here and then decided to jump anyway where before he’d always had reason to stop) and turning away from it
Considering the fact that he’s wearing the same space suit when he declares himself Lord of Time as he was when he famously told the devil “I believe in HER” I think there might be something there. I’m not great with symbolism that I didn’t think of it until I started writing this paragraph, but it’s there. And of course to me it’s a reminder of how much it is losing (repeatedly) Rose that has changed him between those episodes.
Thoughts including the promo (and some more shipping babble):
I think it’s no coincidence that we’re going down this road again and using the Master at the end. Although, from what little I know it really *ought* to be the Valeyard this time (really should have been last time too), and it could just be the Valeyard claiming to be the Master from what we saw...maybe. I wouldn’t rule it out at least.
As great as it will be to see Donna again, and we do need to address her story again before Ten I regenerates, I don’t see that as enough at this point. Donna is the voice that makes the Doctor stop sure; she can, when he’s at his lowest, get him through it and when he’s not they’re friends. But what he needs is Rose, Rose is the one who makes him want to *be* better
Of course I said that in season 3 too, I’m still not sure I was wrong.
no subject
This is why, I really really hope that Moffat brings Donna back during the 11th Doctor's stories, if not even for a couple episodes, so we can finally close up her story and the reason behind why the Doctor chose to erase her mind, and not like Roses when she looked inside the Tardis during the end of series 1, because let's be honest there has to be some sort of powers left in Rose. Also, I would LOVE RTD or Moffat to focus on the fact that Donna's ring totally sparkled at the end of "Journeys End", and what that means because, that still bugs me and I know there was a reason behind it.
no subject
I'm sure the focus will be on the Doctor given what we've been seeing, but that doesn't mean we won't see plenty of Donna.
no subject
Ten has approximately two hours and 15 minutes of on-screen story left. Will that be enough to tie up the loose ends that many of us wish RTD would address, particularly since his track record in that regard has been spotty at best? Unless the mysterious six-word title of the penultimate episode turns out to be "Who's Afraid of the Bad Wolf?" I anticipate Rose's participation most likely being restricted to the poignant epilogue/prologue to her story that was revealed months ago, but I would love to be wrong.
no subject
From a production standpoint I don't figure we'll get much if any Rose in the finale, but I really don't see how the story can work any other way (and not leave Eleven a broken shell of a man that is). As much as I love RTD I really don't know how he plans to get out of this one.
no subject
he needs someone. that's clear. and while Donna is good, will slap him and pull him back to Earth, it was Rose who put him and kept him together, and it's she who he needs.
at least the idea of her. he should ask himself WWRD or WWRW, you know?
And have I mentioned how much I want Rose to show up? I'm hoping they pull a PiC and she shows up, and all our heads explode.
I haven't really looked at the trailer, I just know the Master and Donna are in it. I was reading Doctor Who's tv tropes article and I finally understood what/who the valeyard is and I think that is who we'll see this christmas. it just makes sense.
no subject
I really don't think Moffat will bring back any one from RTD's era. They are actually calling series 5, series 1. That makes me so ANGRY. And what with Eleven having an epic romance with freaking River Song, I don't want Moffat to tarnish my memory of the wonderful characters RTD created. Moffat can do plot, but his characters are flat.
Anyway, it took me long time to understand what the Doctor did in JE. Now I understand and accept that he gave Rose the greatest gift he could. Poor Doctor.
Do you mind if I friend you?
no subject
I want Rose to be in Ten's last episode cause it seems...right. and I want Billie to be in David's last episode. even if it is as a hallucination. which is my working theory at the moment.
Moffat's kind of retooling the series which totally pisses me off and makes me not want to watch at all. and I like that RTD at least locked Ten II and Rose away where Moffatt can't get to them, so he can't ruin their story. They (and we by extension) get a happy ending, as much as one is possible in DW.
yeah, of course, go ahead and friend me.
no subject
THIS!
Moffat can have all the Rivers and Reinette's but there is a Doctor who loves Rose in a place where nothing can touch them.
no subject
This has been the biggest consolation to me over the JE issues (of which I have many). I don't plan to watch Moffat-Who anyway (and all the retooling makes me all the more sure I made the right choice) but knowing there's always going to be a Doctor/Rose option to come back to or ponder about, is a happy thought.
But I agree, Rose should be in Ten's last ep in some form. Old School tended to have the Doctor hallucinate his companions of that lifetime before/as he regenerated so I think there's decent odds we'll see something of Rose, but I want more than that, I'm greedy that way.
no subject
Like I said in the original post the thing is that yeah Donna is more likely to actively smack some sense into him where Rose doesn't do that directly, partly out of love and partly because that's not who Rose is. But Rose makes him *want* to be a better person, Rose keeps him grounded in an entirely different way, not (usually) by chastising him for being in Lonely God mode, but making him realize he can be more than that by being a man instead.
I've gotten to a point where, as long as I don't try and *watch* JE I understand what Ten I did, because I can rationalize it, but watching it all the rationalizing turns off and I'm back to being pissed at Ten I and RTD.