jedi_of_urth (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
jedi_of_urth) wrote2012-02-10 02:59 pm
jedi_of_urth) wrote2012-02-10 02:59 pm
Entry tags:
Longer TVD thoughts
As promised I put together a (much) longer version of my thoughts on last night's Vampire Diaries. And there are still points I could have discussed more but didn't have coherent thoughts on.
(All without rewatching the episode to remember what points I wanted to make)
-Was the stalker vision at the beginning supposed to be Rebekah, or was it the one reference to the murder plot we can get from the episode? Vampire Diaries, you’re better than the way you’re handling this plot.
-Poor Alaric doesn’t get to be in the episode, did no one come to feed him more blood? Considering no one feeds Matt blood later either I guess this episode wasn’t going that route. Though I may allow them to get away with it after what happened to Bill, pretty sure Ric doesn’t want to run the risk of falling in the same trap.
-Elena/Matt squishy feelings, I have them and you can’t take them from me. But I do love their friendship now that it’s getting more play time, because they’re trying so hard to support each other but moving in opposite directions...or trying to in Matt’s case.
-So Rebekah did go through with her kill Elena plan, and as predicated Elijah wouldn’t stand for it. And seeing as Rebekah had just mentioned the whole dagger incident I feel pretty sure Elijah knew about it and still rushed in to save Elena. And don’t try and tell me he was just doing it out of loyalty to Mommy dearest, he was doing it because he was not going to let Elena be killed. I call it shippy, but there are plenty of non shippy reasons too. (But he so has squishy feelings for her.)
-But...I want to see them catch up. I know I said I didn’t need much, but I want much. But Elena did seem back on the trust Elijah train, and he clearly told her a lot of what had happened.
-You know, there’s a lot to like about this episode but the writing feel slightly...off. Because Damon acts like Stefan’s being a total jerk when he’s really not. He’s been way more jerkish at other points recently and Damon’s reacted less to it. Is it a case of the straw that broke the camel’s back or what?
-But anyway, this whole ball idea amuses me. Plus, who has a ball gown these days? Even in Mystic Falls balls aren’t standard social fair. And strangely, the episode *knows* this, given that Klaus had to give Caroline one, and if any teen was going to have one it would be Caroline.
-Also, why wasn’t Liz invited? You’d think Original Family would want the Sheriff on their side too. Poor Liz and Alaric, not young and pretty enough (apparently) to get ball invitations. Although Bonnie didn’t get to come either so...what gives. Ester really should have invited the people who got her out of the casket.
-You know, I can kind of get Klaus inviting Caroline (local young vamp, currently in the Salvatore camp who he’s trying to get on his side; plus mummy wanted him to bring a date at the last minute and he knew she’d be available). I can get him buying her stuff (money clearly isn’t a concern to him, and he’s lived long enough to have be decent judge what would fit/flatter a girl). But I’m having a hard time figuring out how to take the fact that his interest seems to go beyond that into the realm of squishy feelings.
-Kol looks freakishly like Elijah. Are they real life brothers or something because I’m almost confused by how alike they look. Except I think this shows that it must be Elijah I’m attracted to because I don’t feel as attracted to Kol (okay, a little, but my reaction to Elijah even early on).
-I confess I spent the first section of the party half expecting it to turn out Elena wasn’t there yet and Katherine had come instead. I think it’s largely because that dress was so not Elena and way more Katherine. At least to me.
-This only occurs to me now, but does Ester count as human? Because if so she’d need to invite all the vampire guests in...oh wait, she’s probably not an official resident since it’s Klaus’s house...but that brings back who counts as “legal” residents and who doesn’t issue like why vampires can traipse into the Salvatore house if Elena should have to invite them. Pondering.
-For some reason the love triangle stuff bugs me in this episode way more than it has lately Maybe it’s just that it’s more prominently displayed, or maybe the writing/acting/directing is a little off. However I did get a laugh out of Elena with a Salvatore on each arm, this may be the first time that’s literally happened.
-Oh Carol, I want to know more about the way you’re handling what’s happening to your town. Although, again, why isn’t Liz there?
-Um, how do people *know* this dance the Original Family wants everyone to do? I'm pretty sure most of those guests haven't learned ye olde viking waltz.
-Elena/Damon dances are always a ~thing~ and while I think it still was here, this time Elena/Stefan got more focus. Not being a huge shipper of either and a sometimes shipper of both I don’t mind this. And this part worked for me, Stefan and Elena still have feelings for each other, we know that, and ending up dancing together is going to bring that to the surface. And here Elena didn’t seem quite as...desperate as she did in other scenes.
-You know, while I agree with the show’s stance that Elena may not always make the right decisions but it’s her right to make them, I’m not sure I agree with the stance on Stefan and Damon’s attitude to that. Yes, Damon can be overprotective. Yes Stefan tended to stand behind Elena’s choices. But those aren’t absolutes, and the fact that Stefan now is supporting her choice doesn’t mean the same thing it did before either.
-Plus I thought they should have just had Elijah accompany her to meet with Ester anyway. Seems like an obvious compromise to me. Sure Ester wouldn’t have gone for that but they didn’t know she wasn’t telling her children her plan when the leads were discussing it.
-Oh Elijah. He doesn’t trust mommy dearest, but he trusts Elena. And I do think that when she promised to tell him everything she meant it, which makes her later decisions all the more heartbreaking.
And you know, while we’re on the subject of Elijah, I wish we’d seen him and Elena catch up, and not just for shippy reasons. This is a man who has *not* carted his family around in caskets for a thousand years; who never really thought there was much chance he’d be reunited with them (especially Ester); who spent a lot of that time working against Klaus and just when he thought things weren’t so bad Klaus gave him a new reason to hate and distrust him. And now he’s expected to play happy family while his surprisingly alive mother is keeping secrets.
It’s no wonder he’s mistrustful, feeling unsettled and suspicious. Things are weird; and for a thousand year old Original vampire that’s a big deal.
-Oh, and in spite of his suspicions he still doesn’t offer to go with her to meet with Ester. Not even to help her find the room. Really writers, it’s such an obvious idea.
-And now we get to Ester...this is going to require more thinky thoughts isn’t it (just wait until we get to *that* scene)
I don’t trust Ester. Mainly I don’t think we’ve seen the endgame of her plan yet. She’s playing Klaus, and Elijah, what’s to say she’s not playing Elena and Finn, or that she’s even told them the same thing?
Considering the show’s mythology I can easily believe a witch like her would feel guilty/be punished/whatever for creating the vampires/inflicting the curse on her children/etc. plus the need to kill Klaus for what he is and does. I *can* believe that she’s planning to kill all her children in order to do what she has to...I’m not sure I do, and I’m definitely not sure that’s the extent of her plan.
I’m half convinced her end goal is to kill *all* the vampires and that’s going to bring the various sides together in order to stop her. At least it makes sense in my head, but like I said, I don’t trust her so I *could* be seeing things.
But, in spite of Elena’s lie, Ester doesn’t really apologize for trying to kill her. Just food for thought.
-I kind of have thoughts on Rebekah/Matt but they’re not real well formed yet. But I do love Matt stumbling over dealing with the vampire world. He doesn’t want to be a part of this, but he keeps getting pulled in, but he still tries to do his best. Even if he doesn’t get that vampires don’t get cold (although we’ve seen plenty of vamps wear jackets and coats so I guess they’re just fashionable).
-I...kind of like Kol. I’m not sure why, but maybe it’s just nice to have a vampire without a master plan or anything. Or, you know, the fact that he looks so much like Elijah.
-Warning in advance, I can’t remember which order the next two points happen in in the episode, but before I dive back into Originals discussion, I think I’ll talk about the Elena Damon scene.
-More of the love triangle I don’t think was done right this episode. Although I do have to give it up for how far Damon’s eyes can bug out of his head when he’s upset with Elena, it really doesn’t seem to fit the way things have been recently.
Damon knows that “it’s right, just not now” with them. He *knows* that Elena’s not ready to deal with what’s going on between them and he’s accepted that. He knows she’s focused on Stefan right now, and so is he; he still feels guilty for wanting what he wants with Elena because of Stefan.
So the fact that what she said was basically ‘I can’t deal with you being in love with me’ should also not be surprising. He already knows that. And yes, she said it badly, because I can *kind of* see how it came across as deriding his feelings as a problem, it’s also not news that they kind of are for her.
-But I think I’ve put off talking about *the scene* long enough. And there’s a lot to discuss, because while various people may have other opinions, for me Elena’s choice to go along with Ester’s plan and lie to Elijah about it was THE moment of the episode.
My distrust of Ester aside, I definitely understand why Elena would go along with the plan (assuming *she* trusts Ester, if she doesn’t then we have a problem). She may not agree with Stefan’s ‘kill Klaus at any cost’ outlook, but killing Klaus is definitely something she’s cool with. He had, directly or indirectly, killed or hurt a lot of people she cares about (and a lot of people she doesn’t but in TVD morality those come later). Killing Klaus helps Stefan, it helps Tyler, it helps Caroline; it avenges Jenna and John (somehow I suspect); it removes a huge threat to her current family and keeps her and any children/decedents she might one day have from being controlled by Klaus. In short, Klaus deserves to die.
The cost for all that is to sell out the rest of the Original Family, two of whom she doesn’t know but would obviously be super strong vampires since they’re Originals. Rebekah, who Elena may sympathize with sometimes but ultimately she won’t be too sad to see her dead. And Elijah, who...she does care about, but isn’t exactly innocent in all this either. If we treat the others as insignificant variables (or at least basically balanced between save and let die) then it’s basically killing Klaus vs. saving Elijah and that equation is heavily in favor of one dead Klaus.
And even then I don’t think she has a lot of conviction in choosing to go with Ester’s plan. Like I said in my other post, I don’t feel like she put a lot of heart into lying to Elijah. She let him believe it more than she made him believe it to my eyes. Hell, the way they were looking at each other I'm not convinced he didn't suspect/know something, but decided to follow her lead. I suspect we’re going to see her pushed on it sooner rather than later and her lack of conviction in her choice will be a key player.
-The last Stefan/Elena scene is probably the one I have the most issues with, because it’s so at odds with the way their relationship has seemed recently. This scene seems to be on the ‘they should totally get back together’ side of the line where a couple of days ago she was all but accusing him of murdering people again. Seriously Elena, I stand by your choice to still love him, but you two are way past the “feel something” point. I thought that was an oversimplification in Ghost World and it really isn’t flying here.
-Would someone *please* give Matt some vampire blood? I know Rebekah may not understand the whole no insurance aspect, but she did try to kill him earlier, healing his hand seems like it would be a nice gesture. Although it would be kind of fun if someone offered and he was like “what part of ‘I don’t want to deal with this stuff’ do you people not get?”
-I *want* to like Caroline/Klaus. They have good chemistry and are interesting playing off each other, but I’d have to get past the Klaus aspect of this ship. And while I can see Klaus/Stefan, especially ripper!Stefan, the fact that Klaus is...Klaus is a holdup on Klaus/anyone ships. Plus, like I said, I haven’t quite worked out his reasons as yet.
-I...have no opinion on Damon/Rebekah. Although like most of the overt shipping related stuff this episode it felt a little out of step with logic. I can’t even pin down what it is with this one because in some ways it makes total sense but in other...meh.
For obvious reasons there was a lot of talk of ships in the recap. And as I’ve said, most of it didn’t *quite* work for me. Most of it worked to some extent but not quite a right fit. For a variety of reasons, and half the time I can’t pin down what they are, but they’re there. And last week’s ep was so good that this feels like a let down that it probably shouldn’t be.
As a final note, I’ve had some inkling to write Elena/Elijah fic but I have no idea how to get them to do more than talk and deal with each other and some repressed pining on Elijah's side. I cannot get my head around the idea of Elijah ever making a move on her regarding his feelings for her, and without that I doubt Elena would ever consider it. On the show I may not care if we ever get past the talking/dealing/trust issues/complex moral questions aspects, but I’d like to be able to think of a way it could happen.
(All without rewatching the episode to remember what points I wanted to make)
-Was the stalker vision at the beginning supposed to be Rebekah, or was it the one reference to the murder plot we can get from the episode? Vampire Diaries, you’re better than the way you’re handling this plot.
-Poor Alaric doesn’t get to be in the episode, did no one come to feed him more blood? Considering no one feeds Matt blood later either I guess this episode wasn’t going that route. Though I may allow them to get away with it after what happened to Bill, pretty sure Ric doesn’t want to run the risk of falling in the same trap.
-Elena/Matt squishy feelings, I have them and you can’t take them from me. But I do love their friendship now that it’s getting more play time, because they’re trying so hard to support each other but moving in opposite directions...or trying to in Matt’s case.
-So Rebekah did go through with her kill Elena plan, and as predicated Elijah wouldn’t stand for it. And seeing as Rebekah had just mentioned the whole dagger incident I feel pretty sure Elijah knew about it and still rushed in to save Elena. And don’t try and tell me he was just doing it out of loyalty to Mommy dearest, he was doing it because he was not going to let Elena be killed. I call it shippy, but there are plenty of non shippy reasons too. (But he so has squishy feelings for her.)
-But...I want to see them catch up. I know I said I didn’t need much, but I want much. But Elena did seem back on the trust Elijah train, and he clearly told her a lot of what had happened.
-You know, there’s a lot to like about this episode but the writing feel slightly...off. Because Damon acts like Stefan’s being a total jerk when he’s really not. He’s been way more jerkish at other points recently and Damon’s reacted less to it. Is it a case of the straw that broke the camel’s back or what?
-But anyway, this whole ball idea amuses me. Plus, who has a ball gown these days? Even in Mystic Falls balls aren’t standard social fair. And strangely, the episode *knows* this, given that Klaus had to give Caroline one, and if any teen was going to have one it would be Caroline.
-Also, why wasn’t Liz invited? You’d think Original Family would want the Sheriff on their side too. Poor Liz and Alaric, not young and pretty enough (apparently) to get ball invitations. Although Bonnie didn’t get to come either so...what gives. Ester really should have invited the people who got her out of the casket.
-You know, I can kind of get Klaus inviting Caroline (local young vamp, currently in the Salvatore camp who he’s trying to get on his side; plus mummy wanted him to bring a date at the last minute and he knew she’d be available). I can get him buying her stuff (money clearly isn’t a concern to him, and he’s lived long enough to have be decent judge what would fit/flatter a girl). But I’m having a hard time figuring out how to take the fact that his interest seems to go beyond that into the realm of squishy feelings.
-Kol looks freakishly like Elijah. Are they real life brothers or something because I’m almost confused by how alike they look. Except I think this shows that it must be Elijah I’m attracted to because I don’t feel as attracted to Kol (okay, a little, but my reaction to Elijah even early on).
-I confess I spent the first section of the party half expecting it to turn out Elena wasn’t there yet and Katherine had come instead. I think it’s largely because that dress was so not Elena and way more Katherine. At least to me.
-This only occurs to me now, but does Ester count as human? Because if so she’d need to invite all the vampire guests in...oh wait, she’s probably not an official resident since it’s Klaus’s house...but that brings back who counts as “legal” residents and who doesn’t issue like why vampires can traipse into the Salvatore house if Elena should have to invite them. Pondering.
-For some reason the love triangle stuff bugs me in this episode way more than it has lately Maybe it’s just that it’s more prominently displayed, or maybe the writing/acting/directing is a little off. However I did get a laugh out of Elena with a Salvatore on each arm, this may be the first time that’s literally happened.
-Oh Carol, I want to know more about the way you’re handling what’s happening to your town. Although, again, why isn’t Liz there?
-Um, how do people *know* this dance the Original Family wants everyone to do? I'm pretty sure most of those guests haven't learned ye olde viking waltz.
-Elena/Damon dances are always a ~thing~ and while I think it still was here, this time Elena/Stefan got more focus. Not being a huge shipper of either and a sometimes shipper of both I don’t mind this. And this part worked for me, Stefan and Elena still have feelings for each other, we know that, and ending up dancing together is going to bring that to the surface. And here Elena didn’t seem quite as...desperate as she did in other scenes.
-You know, while I agree with the show’s stance that Elena may not always make the right decisions but it’s her right to make them, I’m not sure I agree with the stance on Stefan and Damon’s attitude to that. Yes, Damon can be overprotective. Yes Stefan tended to stand behind Elena’s choices. But those aren’t absolutes, and the fact that Stefan now is supporting her choice doesn’t mean the same thing it did before either.
-Plus I thought they should have just had Elijah accompany her to meet with Ester anyway. Seems like an obvious compromise to me. Sure Ester wouldn’t have gone for that but they didn’t know she wasn’t telling her children her plan when the leads were discussing it.
-Oh Elijah. He doesn’t trust mommy dearest, but he trusts Elena. And I do think that when she promised to tell him everything she meant it, which makes her later decisions all the more heartbreaking.
And you know, while we’re on the subject of Elijah, I wish we’d seen him and Elena catch up, and not just for shippy reasons. This is a man who has *not* carted his family around in caskets for a thousand years; who never really thought there was much chance he’d be reunited with them (especially Ester); who spent a lot of that time working against Klaus and just when he thought things weren’t so bad Klaus gave him a new reason to hate and distrust him. And now he’s expected to play happy family while his surprisingly alive mother is keeping secrets.
It’s no wonder he’s mistrustful, feeling unsettled and suspicious. Things are weird; and for a thousand year old Original vampire that’s a big deal.
-Oh, and in spite of his suspicions he still doesn’t offer to go with her to meet with Ester. Not even to help her find the room. Really writers, it’s such an obvious idea.
-And now we get to Ester...this is going to require more thinky thoughts isn’t it (just wait until we get to *that* scene)
I don’t trust Ester. Mainly I don’t think we’ve seen the endgame of her plan yet. She’s playing Klaus, and Elijah, what’s to say she’s not playing Elena and Finn, or that she’s even told them the same thing?
Considering the show’s mythology I can easily believe a witch like her would feel guilty/be punished/whatever for creating the vampires/inflicting the curse on her children/etc. plus the need to kill Klaus for what he is and does. I *can* believe that she’s planning to kill all her children in order to do what she has to...I’m not sure I do, and I’m definitely not sure that’s the extent of her plan.
I’m half convinced her end goal is to kill *all* the vampires and that’s going to bring the various sides together in order to stop her. At least it makes sense in my head, but like I said, I don’t trust her so I *could* be seeing things.
But, in spite of Elena’s lie, Ester doesn’t really apologize for trying to kill her. Just food for thought.
-I kind of have thoughts on Rebekah/Matt but they’re not real well formed yet. But I do love Matt stumbling over dealing with the vampire world. He doesn’t want to be a part of this, but he keeps getting pulled in, but he still tries to do his best. Even if he doesn’t get that vampires don’t get cold (although we’ve seen plenty of vamps wear jackets and coats so I guess they’re just fashionable).
-I...kind of like Kol. I’m not sure why, but maybe it’s just nice to have a vampire without a master plan or anything. Or, you know, the fact that he looks so much like Elijah.
-Warning in advance, I can’t remember which order the next two points happen in in the episode, but before I dive back into Originals discussion, I think I’ll talk about the Elena Damon scene.
-More of the love triangle I don’t think was done right this episode. Although I do have to give it up for how far Damon’s eyes can bug out of his head when he’s upset with Elena, it really doesn’t seem to fit the way things have been recently.
Damon knows that “it’s right, just not now” with them. He *knows* that Elena’s not ready to deal with what’s going on between them and he’s accepted that. He knows she’s focused on Stefan right now, and so is he; he still feels guilty for wanting what he wants with Elena because of Stefan.
So the fact that what she said was basically ‘I can’t deal with you being in love with me’ should also not be surprising. He already knows that. And yes, she said it badly, because I can *kind of* see how it came across as deriding his feelings as a problem, it’s also not news that they kind of are for her.
-But I think I’ve put off talking about *the scene* long enough. And there’s a lot to discuss, because while various people may have other opinions, for me Elena’s choice to go along with Ester’s plan and lie to Elijah about it was THE moment of the episode.
My distrust of Ester aside, I definitely understand why Elena would go along with the plan (assuming *she* trusts Ester, if she doesn’t then we have a problem). She may not agree with Stefan’s ‘kill Klaus at any cost’ outlook, but killing Klaus is definitely something she’s cool with. He had, directly or indirectly, killed or hurt a lot of people she cares about (and a lot of people she doesn’t but in TVD morality those come later). Killing Klaus helps Stefan, it helps Tyler, it helps Caroline; it avenges Jenna and John (somehow I suspect); it removes a huge threat to her current family and keeps her and any children/decedents she might one day have from being controlled by Klaus. In short, Klaus deserves to die.
The cost for all that is to sell out the rest of the Original Family, two of whom she doesn’t know but would obviously be super strong vampires since they’re Originals. Rebekah, who Elena may sympathize with sometimes but ultimately she won’t be too sad to see her dead. And Elijah, who...she does care about, but isn’t exactly innocent in all this either. If we treat the others as insignificant variables (or at least basically balanced between save and let die) then it’s basically killing Klaus vs. saving Elijah and that equation is heavily in favor of one dead Klaus.
And even then I don’t think she has a lot of conviction in choosing to go with Ester’s plan. Like I said in my other post, I don’t feel like she put a lot of heart into lying to Elijah. She let him believe it more than she made him believe it to my eyes. Hell, the way they were looking at each other I'm not convinced he didn't suspect/know something, but decided to follow her lead. I suspect we’re going to see her pushed on it sooner rather than later and her lack of conviction in her choice will be a key player.
-The last Stefan/Elena scene is probably the one I have the most issues with, because it’s so at odds with the way their relationship has seemed recently. This scene seems to be on the ‘they should totally get back together’ side of the line where a couple of days ago she was all but accusing him of murdering people again. Seriously Elena, I stand by your choice to still love him, but you two are way past the “feel something” point. I thought that was an oversimplification in Ghost World and it really isn’t flying here.
-Would someone *please* give Matt some vampire blood? I know Rebekah may not understand the whole no insurance aspect, but she did try to kill him earlier, healing his hand seems like it would be a nice gesture. Although it would be kind of fun if someone offered and he was like “what part of ‘I don’t want to deal with this stuff’ do you people not get?”
-I *want* to like Caroline/Klaus. They have good chemistry and are interesting playing off each other, but I’d have to get past the Klaus aspect of this ship. And while I can see Klaus/Stefan, especially ripper!Stefan, the fact that Klaus is...Klaus is a holdup on Klaus/anyone ships. Plus, like I said, I haven’t quite worked out his reasons as yet.
-I...have no opinion on Damon/Rebekah. Although like most of the overt shipping related stuff this episode it felt a little out of step with logic. I can’t even pin down what it is with this one because in some ways it makes total sense but in other...meh.
For obvious reasons there was a lot of talk of ships in the recap. And as I’ve said, most of it didn’t *quite* work for me. Most of it worked to some extent but not quite a right fit. For a variety of reasons, and half the time I can’t pin down what they are, but they’re there. And last week’s ep was so good that this feels like a let down that it probably shouldn’t be.
As a final note, I’ve had some inkling to write Elena/Elijah fic but I have no idea how to get them to do more than talk and deal with each other and some repressed pining on Elijah's side. I cannot get my head around the idea of Elijah ever making a move on her regarding his feelings for her, and without that I doubt Elena would ever consider it. On the show I may not care if we ever get past the talking/dealing/trust issues/complex moral questions aspects, but I’d like to be able to think of a way it could happen.