jedi_of_urth (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
jedi_of_urth) wrote2009-02-26 11:10 pm
jedi_of_urth) wrote2009-02-26 11:10 pm
Entry tags:
Doctor Who and Farscape
So I've been rewatching Farscape recently (actually there are a few episodes this was the first time in fact) and...
I've been able to manage even though I haven't really dealt with my issues regarding Journey's End and right after JE I wasn't sure that would happen, so that's progress on that front.
But it brought out how much more JE needed for me to be cool with what we got. A flash at the end of 'Eat Me' and the one next episode was enough for me to be convinced that both Crichtons were equally real and the same starting off. Which was essential for the following episodes and really the rest of the series. Granted in the following episodes we got more or less equal time with each of them too but it had to start off right.
Just a few bits of the two Doctors saying the same thing at the same time or actually working together and showing they thought and acted the same could have gone a long way to a) showing they were the same even with slightly different biology (which wasn't the case with the Crichtons admittedly) and b) showing to *each other* that they were the same.
The second has been a big point of mine since JE aired, the way Ten I talks about and to Ten II is not quite right for talking to what is supposedly in every way that matters, himself. The Johns may argue with each other but it's because they are the same and they're either jealous of each other or fighting because they are exactly the same.
Changing gears, I see a lot of parallels (obviously)between Aeryn regarding TalynJohn as the "real one" and taking time to see MoyaJohn as still the same man she fell in love with and Rose's initial conviction that Ten I was the "real him" and needing to be convinced that Ten II was still the same man but with...bonuses (of course I still don't think Rose had really considered the aging thing for herself, that was the Doctor's thing). Which of course bring us back to that big part of the problem with JE again, the speed at which everything happens. Aeryn look months to sort the pieces out in her mind (while admittedly grieving for TalynJohn at the same time) what Rose was expected to get her head around in minutes.
--Which is why in spite of the fact that I don't think anyone (that I know at least) doubts that Ten II and Rose will be happy what actually comes next can be hard to image. All that stuff that should be dealt with or at least needs time to believe it really was is still there. And yet going from that kiss and all but marriage proposal to 'hmm, I think we need to cool down and think about this a bit' isn't all that easy to imagine.--
I do think fully-Time-Lord-Doctor and TalynJohn will always have some...place in the relationships that wound up together (where if it had ended up the other way I'm not sure it would have been the case for either relationship but I don't feel like dealing with that). TalynJohn because he died and FTL-Doctor because he lived and both Rose and Ten II know what it cost him to give them that happy ending while he went on alone.
I've been able to manage even though I haven't really dealt with my issues regarding Journey's End and right after JE I wasn't sure that would happen, so that's progress on that front.
But it brought out how much more JE needed for me to be cool with what we got. A flash at the end of 'Eat Me' and the one next episode was enough for me to be convinced that both Crichtons were equally real and the same starting off. Which was essential for the following episodes and really the rest of the series. Granted in the following episodes we got more or less equal time with each of them too but it had to start off right.
Just a few bits of the two Doctors saying the same thing at the same time or actually working together and showing they thought and acted the same could have gone a long way to a) showing they were the same even with slightly different biology (which wasn't the case with the Crichtons admittedly) and b) showing to *each other* that they were the same.
The second has been a big point of mine since JE aired, the way Ten I talks about and to Ten II is not quite right for talking to what is supposedly in every way that matters, himself. The Johns may argue with each other but it's because they are the same and they're either jealous of each other or fighting because they are exactly the same.
Changing gears, I see a lot of parallels (obviously)between Aeryn regarding TalynJohn as the "real one" and taking time to see MoyaJohn as still the same man she fell in love with and Rose's initial conviction that Ten I was the "real him" and needing to be convinced that Ten II was still the same man but with...bonuses (of course I still don't think Rose had really considered the aging thing for herself, that was the Doctor's thing). Which of course bring us back to that big part of the problem with JE again, the speed at which everything happens. Aeryn look months to sort the pieces out in her mind (while admittedly grieving for TalynJohn at the same time) what Rose was expected to get her head around in minutes.
--Which is why in spite of the fact that I don't think anyone (that I know at least) doubts that Ten II and Rose will be happy what actually comes next can be hard to image. All that stuff that should be dealt with or at least needs time to believe it really was is still there. And yet going from that kiss and all but marriage proposal to 'hmm, I think we need to cool down and think about this a bit' isn't all that easy to imagine.--
I do think fully-Time-Lord-Doctor and TalynJohn will always have some...place in the relationships that wound up together (where if it had ended up the other way I'm not sure it would have been the case for either relationship but I don't feel like dealing with that). TalynJohn because he died and FTL-Doctor because he lived and both Rose and Ten II know what it cost him to give them that happy ending while he went on alone.
no subject
Of course, where I felt kind of icked out by two Johns, I'm more accepting of the two Ten thing. :D
I think that one of the HUGE differences between Rose's position and Aeryn's is that MoyaJohn wouldn't have any of the other John's memories. Aeryn built up this whole relationship with TalynJohn, and the other John wasn't a part of it.
But Ten II DOES have all the memories of their relationship. He basically *is* the same person - aside from the half-human, Donna thing. He is Rose's Doctor, in a way that MoyaJohn wasn't really Aeryn's John.
I don't really see Rose having a hard time accepting Ten II so much as worrying about Ten I and hoping that he's all right - along with hurt that he went and abandoned her. Aeryn's position, in contrast, was a lot more about whether or not she could accept MoyaJohn as her John.
no subject
Heehee. Well, that's the different between a one episode deus ex handy and a plot arc that had repercussions though the whole rest of the series. They had to think it through and make sure it was well laid out otherwise it wouldn't have worked at all. Whereas RTD only had time to skim the surface of the story, he tried his best though.
I felt kind of icked out by two Johns, I'm more accepting of the two Ten thing.
I can understand that. In part because I think the issue with the two Johns was supposed to be...not icky but at least messy, whereas what Rusty was trying to do with the two Tens was have his cake (angst) and eat it (happy ending) too. And it does work in a lot of ways even with all my issues I have to admit.
MoyaJohn wouldn't have any of the other John's memories.
None of the TalynJohn memories no, but he was still the man she had originally fallen in love with. He wasn't however the man she'd finally *let* herself love the way she finally had with TalynJohn. They were originally the same man and it was a roll of the dice which version ended up where. Now the time they had to become different people was much more than in the case to the Tens but the basics were still there.
Aeryn built up this whole relationship with TalynJohn, and the other John wasn't a part of it.
Which was kind of where I was going in the post when I said that if TalynJohn had lived MoyaJohn wouldn't really have been part of the resulting dynamic. And if Rose had ended up with Ten I in the TARDIS, I don't think Ten II would have been the worry for her that Ten I is in the situation we have (I could be wrong but we'll never know).
He is Rose's Doctor, in a way that MoyaJohn wasn't really Aeryn's John.
More or less agreed, which was why, while I still think the end of JE was rushed, I don't think it'll take months for Rose to process the situation she ended up with and be happy with it. Aeryn needed months, because her situation was much more depressing and difficult. Rose's is just...starting out kind of awkward but I do believe it'll work out.